Ben Raffi of Growlabs on B2B Lead Generation & Sales Automation Powered by Machine Learning

Ben Raffi of Growlabs - Podcast Transcript

Scott Orn:	Yeah, Scott Orn at Kruze Consulting. And before we get to another great podcast, this time with Ben at GrowLabs, quick shout out to Kruze tax team. They’re kicking butt. Three weeks left ‘til the deadline. It’s been an awesome tax year, and we will be taking new tax clients at the end of October. So we’re taking a little breather, and then if you need your taxes done for next year, hit us up. Also a shout out to Kruze Venture Debt Fetch. This is one of my pet projects. We will actually help you connect to lenders. Then we’ll break down the term sheets. We’ll tell you what the best deal is. We’ll help negotiate it, and we’ll get you a great deal, and also good lenders to work with. That’s very important. The lenders we go to are the top-notch folks, best in the business, so check out Venture Debt Fetch at Kruze Consulting and also the Kruze Tax website. And with that, let’s get to Ben at GrowLabs. Welcome to founders and friends podcast with Scott Orn at Kruze Consulting, and my very special guest is Ben Raffi from GrowLabs. Welcome, Ben.
Ben Raffi:	Thanks for having me, Scott. Really excited to talk to you today.
Scott:	Is that a charming French accent you have?
Ben:	It is, yeah. I’m actually from France.
Scott:	Oh, wow. Well, I’m glad I’m married and my wife can’t hear that accent and … Well, hey. So, thanks for joining. You’re a client, you were referred by a good friend of ours, and maybe you could start off by just kind of telling the story of GrowLabs and how you got to the point of starting the company.
Ben:	Yeah, for sure. So, as I mentioned, originally from France, but actually went to school in Canada, so I left France when I was 18. Studied in Canada, I studied engineering and then started my first company back in Canada. The company was, it’s called Universe. It’s an event [inaudible] app for organizers and, you know, built a great product, great team, but then really realized what was really difficult was how to get customers at scale. And we’re in an industry where it was a big target market, but it was very hard to reach out to the people, and we needed to do it very efficiently because we weren’t making a lot of money per client. And so I built a lot of different automation. You know, I had contractors in India and the Philippines doing research for us. We had to aggregate data, we had to clean it up, we had to do all sort of things, and basically kind of like duct taping a lot of different things together. And so I learned a lot through the process. Ended up being very successful, we acquired 32,000 clients in three and a half years with only ten salespeople. So it was very efficient. So I ended up selling this business to Ticketmaster and Live Nation about three years ago. Stayed there for a little bit, but then decided to leave to start GrowLabs, because I realized there was a big need to help other businesses do the same thing, which is how to acquire clients at scale. And all of the other solutions were only partially there or you had to still duct tape a lot of different things. So I decided to start GrowLabs about two and a half years ago.
Scott:	Was it fun to start with a clean sheet of paper like you got? ‘Cause you had all these, probably, kinda messy integrations and messy messaging systems that [inaudible] contractors and everything like that.
Ben:	Yeah, and it was amazing to start clean, but also have had the experience of doing it a dirty way, it really, really helped get us to market and find the [inaudible] market fit really fast.
Scott:	And to get kind of … I want to get back to that, ‘cause you did get product market [inaudible] really fast, and that had some ramifications for your cap table and things like that. But maybe talk about the automation involved and what your … You know, the sweet spot for you guys as a company.
Ben:	Yeah. So kind of like, high level, GrowLabs is an all-in-one sales automation tool. So we combined lead generation with sales automation. And it’s very different from the typical marketing automation where you’re trying to get existing clients or trying to get people who sign up for your webinar. This is really how to acquire leads at scale and convert them. So what we do is we have a proprietary database of 320 million verified prospects. So our clients-
Scott:	That’s crazy.
Ben:	Are all B2B companies. They come to our platform and they can define their ideal customer profile. So an example could be you’re targeting, I don’t know, the V.P. Of advertising at marketing companies that are between 50 to 500 employees, maybe based in New York. There’s a lot of different filters. You can filter by vending amounts, amount of revenue, industries, tons of different things. Even the technology that they use. You can say, hey, I want to target people that use Salesforce, for example.
Scott:	Oh my gosh.
Ben:	So really, really powerful. And then from there, we have an artificial intelligence algorithm that helps the company engage those leads with one-to-one customized e-mail, and we optimize when to send the e-mails, when to send the follow-ups, all the way to when people respond to those e-mails, we actually triage the responses. So we use natural language processing. You know, if it’s an out-of-office, which happens a lot, especially in the summer, we actually detect when the person is back into the office-
Scott:	Oh my gosh. That’s genius.
Ben:	Yeah, exactly. And we schedule the next e-mail a few days after they’re back. If someone is not interested we, we mark it as such. The automation stops. And only when there’s a positive response, so people saying hey, I’m interested in your product, I’d like more information, I want to do a demo, that gets passed to the sales reps. So really, our entire philosophy is we want to make the sales reps way more efficient.
Scott:	Yeah.
Ben:	‘Cause if you look at sales operations these days, most sales reps spend a lot of time prospecting, you know, doing the outreach, doing the follow-up manually. It’s very, very tedious, and they only spend about 20 percent of the time talking to qualified leads. And that’s really, that’s wrong, right?
Scott:	And they’re usually pretty expensive people. Like, they usually have pretty high salaries relative to the rest of the organization.
Ben:	Exactly. And so really the idea is, let’s replace those tedious tasks with all automation. These days with artificial intelligence, you can actually go a really long way. And so our goal is passing those qualified leads so the sales reps spend all of their time, 100 percent of their time, on qualified demos.
Scott:	Yeah.
Ben:	And the way we actually sell is, you know, some of my sales reps, they show their calendars to the sales reps, they’re like, hey, I have eight meetings back to back today, and that was automatically set up for me. How many meetings do your sales reps get every day?
Scott:	Yeah.
Ben:	And people are like, oh, maybe like one, right?
Scott:	That’s amazing. And so, it’s like they don’t even have to really do any work. The system, and the contacting … I guess the work is done kind of fine-tuning who they’re reaching out to, what their target customer is, but they should know that already.
Ben:	Yeah.
Scott:	And go into the system and the dashboard and adjust it.
Ben:	What we actually do is we have something called look-alikes. So once people start responding positively to your campaign, our system actually analyze the trends, like what industries, what technology those people are using, what job titles do they have, and then we can actually recommend other people who are similar, so over time it’s easier and easier to target the right people.
Scott:	It’s kinda like the Facebook lookalike audience, right? Is that kinda how you think about it?
Ben:	Yeah.
Scott:	That’s amazing. How do you know … Maybe this is some of your secret sauce, so don’t, if … You don’t need to tell me, but how do you know if they’re using Salesforce or not? Or how do you know what their title is? Is it you scanning other databases?
Ben:	Yeah, so we have [inaudible] tons of different data aggregators. We also have our own web scraping, so we look at public information on their website. We look at the code base of their website, so we can detect things they’ve implemented on their website. We also have contractors. We have contractors that do research. And then the final piece is we have engagement data. We’re very, very different from a pure lead generation campaign that just sells a bunch of lists. We actually engage these leads, so we know when an e-mail bounced. We know when someone’s on vacation. We know when someone actually responds positively to your campaign. So we know who the decision makers are at the company. So we aggregate all of this data and that makes the database really rich, but also very up to date.
Scott:	Wow. That’s amazing. And so you, as you discussed, you hit product/market fit really quickly. And you guys are a rare company. You’re doing extremely well, but you’ve almost bootstrapped the company. You really haven’t taken much capital at all. Was that a conscious choice you made?
Ben:	Yeah, absolutely. So we’ve raised $2.2 million, which especially in San Francisco is not a lot, and the entire team is based here in San Francisco, so we have a high salary because it’s just the Bay area.
Scott:	You’re telling me, man. Yeah.
Ben:	But we’ve been able to actually reach profitability three months after we launched the product. We’ve continued to grow at 20 or 30 percent month over month. One is because we’ve been able to hit product/market fit fast because I knew the industry, I knew the pain points, and I knew I could solve them. But we also have an amazing team, so we’ve been able to move really fast. But also, we are generating revenue for our clients, and that’s really key. We know the cost driver and our clients don’t see us as an optimization tool or a monitoring tool. We’re really, like, hey, this is a new channel for them to bring new revenue, and the ROI is amazing because not only do we bring the new revenue, but we’re also making the sales reps more efficient, so maybe they don’t need ten sales reps. Or maybe with ten sales reps they can do five times more revenue than they’re currently doing. So the ROI just makes a lot of sense.
Scott:	I hadn’t thought about the efficiency. I mean, in my brain, I was like, oh, this probably pays for itself, or by ten times or something like that, but I hadn’t thought about the fact that by making the sales team more efficient, they don’t have to hire as many salespeople.
Ben:	Exactly. Which is fascinating for us, ‘cause we’re tapping into the sales and marketing budget but also in the HR budget, ‘cause some organization wants to hire 20 sales reps this year, they have a budget for that, and then they realize oh, maybe I only need ten.
Scott:	Yeah.
Ben:	Well ten sales reps, that a huge amount of budget you can allocate towards lead generation.
Scott:	You probably cut the churn of the salespeople, too, because they’re getting good, qualified leads very quickly. They don’t struggle. They don’t quit because they’re not making … ‘cause salespeople will usually if they’re not making money, they’ll quit.
Ben:	Exactly.
Scott:	Or get fired.
Ben:	And it’s all the tedious tasks that we’re taking out of the equation, so really we are bringing them more time so they can focus on the value-added tasks, which is building the relationship, selling on the value prop of the product they are trying to sell, and not just doing the follow-ups and manual tasks that a computer can do.
Scott:	That’s really amazing. And I had the benefit of seeing your financial … You are growing super fast. It’s really awesome. I can vouch for everything you’re doing. So are there certain verticals you’ve done really well in, or do you start small and go big, or how does it work?
Ben:	Yeah, so we work with B2B companies, obviously, so any campaign that’s selling to other businesses works really well. We have clients small and big, you know. Our biggest client is Cisco. We’re working with their team in the U.S., their team in the U.K. But we have super small clients that … You know, even small agencies that don’t even have sales reps, and typically the manager doing their own sales themselves when they have time. And so we’re kind of replacing the sales team. But most of our clients have a sales team of between two or three, up to thousands like Cisco, and we really help them generate new leads.
Scott:	So you’re generating leads for like a thousand salespeople at Cisco? That’s insane.
Ben:	Yup.
Scott:	Wow. And so, was there like a … Like, a lot of times companies like yourselves that get product/market fit, it happens in like one area. Was there … Was there … Was it ticketing space, or was it entertainment, or what was the area that just like clicked right away for you?
Ben:	No, we do have some clients in the ticketing space, just because I have a large network there, but we actually have most clients I would say in technology. A lot of SAS companies, people that have recurring revenue, makes a lot of sense. Any company that has a large target market that targets a lot of small businesses or medium-sized businesses, it makes a ton of sense ‘cause you just need to be efficient in the way you sell.
Scott:	Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes total sense. Now so we’ve talked about all the amazing things and how well it’s working. Were there any points where you were like, oh, gosh, I gotta fix this, or this isn’t working? Like every day, or-?
Ben:	Oh, I mean, every day. Like [inaudible] . We’re trying to move as fast as possible, trying to add as much impact as possible. So every day we’re doing new things. We move fast, so we do end up breaking some stuff, but at the end of the day what’s great is just seeing the impact and the ROI. As I said, the ROI is like 10x, and sometimes that happens in like a month. So it’s kind of like … And for us, what’s amazing is it’s very easy to track the ROI because we engage these leads, we pass them to the client, and we can see if they’re closing or not.
Scott:	Oh, that’s interesting. How do you see? Is it [crosstalk] ?
Ben:	So we actually integrate it with their CRM, yeah.
Scott:	Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s really smart. Oh my gosh. You could probably also see … the database gets smarter, ‘cause you can see who’s responding to stuff, and so-
Ben:	Exactly.
Scott:	If you know they’re thinking about this, then maybe they’re thinking about something else.
Ben:	Exactly. And they actually … Our clients kind of pull up their list of their existing clients, and from there we can say, hey, there are like 5,000 other companies that have similar properties, similar profiles. Here are the decision makers.
Scott:	Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s the look alike stuff.
Ben:	Exactly.
Scott:	I’m sure. Oh my gosh. Is there a specific … Like, sometimes people like to hear war stories. Was there something where a moment where you were nervous or something you needed to overcome? Or maybe it was hiring your sales team.
Ben:	Not really. I mean, what’s interesting is, I always say, we’re our biggest customer. We use our product a lot, and we were the first one to test the boundaries of it, so usually when something is slow, like for example reporting, we’re the first one to see the impact of reporting being slow because we have … For example, we demo our product using our own tool, so we have hundreds of test sequences and test audiences, and we’re like, oh, this is actually getting slower, so usually we hit those boundaries before our clients, which is great. We actually have 65 percent of our new clients coming from us using our product.
Scott:	Oh my gosh. So again, it’s paying for itself for you guys, too.
Ben:	Exactly.
Scott:	Do you think about your software development and all that kind of stuff in terms of that? Where like, you’re investing in your team, you’re making the product better, but you know there’s kind of a two-fold payoff, both in revenue for your future clients, but also the fact that you’re just getting such a good ROI yourself?
Ben:	Exactly. Exactly. I always say we almost have an internal research team, because when we hit pain points or when we have new ideas, if it’s valuable to us, usually it’s going to be valuable to clients.
Scott:	Yeah.
Ben:	[inaudible] sometimes a specific feature for different industries, but for the most part it benefits us first, and then all of our clients.
Scott:	Yeah. I was looking at your website. You have Upwork as a client, or … what are some of the … Maybe a couple example clients and what they really love about you guys, or how they’ve implemented it? ‘Cause I would imagine the Cisco 1,000 rep thing is different than maybe someone targeting small businesses.
Ben:	Yeah, yeah. So a good example would be Nature Box. It’s a fast company. They basically do snack delivery for small businesses and medium-sized businesses, and so they’re reaching out to either the CEO of very small businesses, or the office manager of medium-sized businesses, and so what works really well is having a different ideal consumer profile at a different type of organization. We have them really having a customized messaging for each profile. So you’re gonna reach very differently to the CEO than you’re gonna reach to the office manager. There are different value props.
Scott:	Totally. Do you have a customer success person who helps them with that, and like writes the copy? Or who does that kind of stuff?
Ben:	Yes. So we actually have a team of copywriters that write the copy for our clients. We actually do that. Cost is like 100 bucks for the clients, and it’s obviously optional, but I would say about 80 percent of our clients do that.
Scott:	You probably know it works, too.
Ben:	Exactly. We know it works, we have a lot of data about what’s working, we have a lot of experience working with hundreds of campaigns and doing that. But we also have dedicated success managers. So each client gets their dedicated customer success manager and we try to group them by industry. So they each have clients in different industries, so then you can kind of learn what’s working in one industry and benefit from that. So obviously we don’t share any confidential data about strategies, but there are definitely some best practices that we can-
Scott:	So a small business-oriented company like Nature Box is gonna have a different … Or maybe it’s a fun message or something like that, ‘cause it’s a recreational or fun perk-
Ben:	Exactly.
Scott:	And maybe the Cisco hardware is-
Ben:	Totally different.
Scott:	Performance or something like that.
Ben:	Yes.
Scott:	Yeah. Cool. You actually made a point I think is really interesting. You grew up in Canada, yet you started the company here in San Francisco, and the high salaries and everything. What were some of the trade-offs when you were deciding where to base the company?
Ben:	Yeah. I mean, I think there are pros and cons. I’m a big fan of Canada. Obviously it’s lower cost there. I think the benefits of San Francisco is just the network of companies, and almost the pressure of you just have to move fast. You know, you’re spending money, you just have to move fast, and for me that was the biggest factor. And you also have talents that have been in very, very fast-moving start-ups, and so you can learn a lot from that. Everyone we hire, we’ve been very, very picky, and so we can learn a lot from them and challenge each other, and here, you know that if you’re not growing super fast, people are gonna leave. There are a lot of exciting companies, so it’s kind of like you have that pressure of always hitting the next milestone and always being innovative and growing fast. So I like that a lot for that, but it is obviously stressful because you don’t have a year or two to figure things out.
Scott:	Yeah, yeah. You said you guys raised a couple of million dollars in your … again, this may be something confidential or you don’t want to share, but you have the profile of a company that could raise a humongous round if you wanted to. You probably made a conscious effort to not do that. What’s kind of the trade-offs for you?
Ben:	Yeah, I mean, for me right now, we’re able to generate enough revenue, we’re profitable, and so it’s like … I have investors kind of like knocking at our doors this time-
Scott:	Yeah. That’s the kind of [inaudible] , yeah.
Ben:	Which was very different from our last campaign, where I had to chase investors a lot more. This time I have a lot more investors kind of coming in, which is good, and so we’re still building, we still have a lot of velocity, and so unless there’s a point where I really see a big cash injection would make sense for us, which it will at some point, I will do that, but for now it’s really about the core team, hiring the top people that we can to really continue to innovate, and the benefit right now is that we don’t distraction. I don’t spend a lot of time with my investors, I really spend the time with the customers, understanding their pain point with the team and how we can build really innovative products, and that’s what I really value right now. So, we’re really [crosstalk] .
Scott:	You also talked about, in the context of being based in San Francisco and the kind of peer pressure, there’s a … I sort of bootstrapped ourselves, and that’s what started our company, and we haven’t taken any funding, and it’s like there’s an internal pressure to solve problems quickly when you don’t have a ton of margin for error in the form of capital. Do you feel that’s working for you, too?
Ben:	Oh, absolutely.
Scott:	And your whole team probably understands that, too, right?
Ben:	Yes.
Scott:	‘Cause they’re like … It’s not the, hey, I want to go spend $100,000 to go to a week-long conference or something like that. They know they can’t do that.
Ben:	No, absolutely. And I think it brings some … It’s challenging sometimes, ‘cause you do see competitors doing like crazy stuff with the money they raise, but at the same time it really helps you focus on what really matters and actually tracking the right things, so so far it’s been really successful for us.
Scott:	Yeah. There’s another thing I wanted to ask you about, which is this is your second company, and I always find that there’s … I love working with second and third time entrepreneurs because you guys kind of, for lack of a better word, you know what’s bullshit and what’s not, and it’s really … You guys tend to be very easy, ‘cause we know what’s important, but a lot of times, ‘cause we have so many clients, but we’re, a lot of time for new people or new entrepreneurs we’re teaching them what’s important and trying to get them on track and here’s what to focus on. Are there moments when you reflect back on your previous company and then now, that you see massive time savings? Maybe it’s in recruiting, or maybe it’s recruiting the right kind of person, or what are some of the benefits of doing it the second time?
Ben:	Yeah, I mean, I think I’ve learned a lot from my first experience. Obviously, it’s a very different business, but I do think I’ve learned a lot. I agree that, you know, I think the first time around you think that every single little detail is gonna matter. At the end of the day, there’s really only a few things you can do in the day that are actually gonna be game-changing, and so I ended up being a lot less stressed about things that I don’t do, and really focus on the things that actually, I think, are gonna move the needle. So that’s the biggest difference, I think. And I think I learned that at my previous company, but just investing in the right talent. We have a really amazing team. We’re like 16 people, but we’re generating more revenue than a lot of companies that have raised 100 times more money than us.
Scott:	Yeah.
Ben:	So that’s really exciting to me, and that is what I remember every single day.
Scott:	Were you able to start the company with your same tech team, or some of the same executives from your previous company?
Ben:	Yes. So one of my co-founders was actually one of my first employees at my first company. The head of customer success was working for my first company as well. So we have a lot of people like that. Our CTO actually worked with my other co-founder at another start-up in the Bay area. So we all kind of knew each other and had previous successes together. That helps a lot, obviously.
Scott:	Yeah. ‘Cause that, I feel like assembling the team and not … That’s something that takes some time usually, but if you know who you mesh with and who you’re can hire, it saves a … And a lot of heartache, to be honest with you.
Ben:	Exactly. The company culture is, for me, the top, like the first 25 hires and the company culture is gonna determine everything.
Scott:	Yeah.
Ben:	And so I spent a lot of time thinking about that and who to hire and how to continue having a very efficient team.
Scott:	Yeah.
Ben:	‘Cause we could double the team. That doesn’t mean that we would even increase efficiency. I’ve seen teams double, but the efficiency actually decrease.
Scott:	Well, that’s kind of what I was talking about with the capital raising, it’s like you see bloated companies that people aren’t … That capital isn’t actually being spent well.
Ben:	Yes.
Scott:	Which is what you want to avoid. And then it becomes a liquidation [inaudible] , and it’s kind of tough to get out from under.
Ben:	Yup. And I think the one thing that, kind of like back to your question of what I’ve learned, I think what I’m trying to avoid as much as possible is meetings. I have kind of … I hate meetings, and every time that somebody puts something on my calendar, I’m like, why do we need to meet over this? Can’t we just talk on slack for three minutes and have it resolved? Sometimes it’s very valuable, if it’s a brainstorming, product decision, those kind of thing, I value it a lot, but having just people walk out of their desk, go in a room, close the door, chit-chat for a couple of minutes and then actually go in a meeting … I don’t know, I feel there’s a lot of wasted energy. And in my first company we used to meet a lot. Now we have a lot more efficient tools to actually get feedback from our clients, feedback from our team. You know, we use slack, we use [inaudible] , there’s a lot of tools that we’ve put in place to be super efficient.
Scott:	Yeah. It’s funny you say that. I walked into … I needed a conference room like two to three weeks ago, and I walked in and then like three or four of our top people were in one meeting together, and I was like, how long is this meeting going, and they were like two hours, and I was like, we should never have a meeting for two hours. There should never, ever, in the whole history of the company, be a meeting for two hours. Like half an hour, 45 minutes, that’s perfect.
Ben:	Totally agree.
Scott:	It’s crazy. But I did the math on that meeting, and that was at least $1,000 an hour in-
Ben:	Oh, for sure.
Scott:	Meeting costs, you know? It’s crazy. Kind of talking about that, did you convey the opportunity costs and the dollar costs to your team to convince them, or were they non-meeting people anyways ‘cause they came with you from the [inaudible] .
Ben:	You know, I think it’s just … When you see how fast we’re moving, people just understand, and when you put me in a meeting, the meeting goes fast, and I think people just started realizing every minute counts. And again, it’s San Francisco, people just want to move fast and want to go back to their desk and create value, so if it’s not valuable … One thing that I always tell my people is like, if something is wrong or if we’re doing something wrong as a company or if you see areas of improvement, come to my desk, right? If something is not working, come to my desk and freak out. That was one of the big things that I tell everyone is like, come to me and freak out if you’re wasting your time on any task.
Scott:	Yeah.
Ben:	If you think we can fix something or improve something, come to me. So we have that really big culture on feedback, and people bring new ideas and we test them, and if it works out, then we’re gonna continue implementing it.
Scott:	We’re kind of in that zone, too. We’re doing a lot of that. How do you … Is there a suggestion box? Is there a methodology? Or do they just walk up to your desk and say I need [crosstalk] .
Ben:	Yeah, so I encourage people to just literally walk up to my desk. Because I’m not in a meeting, I’m actually available a lot for that, and I value that a lot, but you know, we use tools like slack, for example, so that’s a great way for people to do that if you don’t feel comfortable as well. And I tend to have a meeting at least once a month with every employee one-to-one and we do 360 degree feedback. We’re like, hey, here’s what’s working, how can I help you, how can you help me, what can we have each other achieve, and things like that.
Scott:	Yeah. That makes total sense. God, you’ve built such a great company. It’s so exciting. What’s the future for you? Or maybe … You may not be able to talk about new releases or things like that, but like … ‘cause you have this big [inaudible] now. What are they excited about? [crosstalk] .
Ben:	Yeah, I mean, for me, we’re just scratching the surface. You know, we built that really amazing engine to generate new leads, but there’s so much more we’re gonna be building. Like, if you look at how people sell these days, for me, it’s very disjointed. There’s a lot of wasted efforts. And so I want to build a revenue machine, right? I want to be able to deliver new revenue to businesses in the most efficient way, and we’re just getting started. Like sales and marketing has been around forever, there are 5,000 different tools out there, but again, you have to duct tape a lot of them, it’s very archaic, and I think there’s a lot of room for consolidation, so we want to build a very efficient funnel for people.
Scott:	Also, probably, I mean you’ve got the machine learning or artificial intelligence, and the fact that your database is smart, I’m sure every time you make that database smarter, every information feed you add to that, it must get exponentially more powerful.
Ben:	Exactly.
Scott:	It’s gotta be pretty exciting.
Ben:	And every time we actually get new clients, it gets exponentially better, ‘cause we get more data-
Scott:	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ben:	More engagement, so it’s getting better and better every day, which is very exciting.
Scott:	That’s really cool. Well, dude, this has been an awesome podcast. Can you tell everyone where they can find you, maybe reach out to your sales team or maybe they’ve already been contacted by GrowLabs-
Ben:	Yeah, probably.
Scott:	‘Cause the engine is so good.
Ben:	For sure. So yeah, we’re at GrowLabs, or GrowLabs.com. You can connect me on my personal e-mail, it’s ben@growlabs.com, and yeah. If you’re a B2B company, if you have a sales team or not, we can really help you find those new clients at scale and just having a conversation we can show you our product. I think it’s … It looks, and it really works really well.
Scott:	You know what I like? You made this point, and it’s kind of like us a little bit in that there’s some companies that don’t have a big sales team but it’s, you’re making the founder more efficient.
Ben:	Exactly.
Scott:	Which is actually an incredible ROI in the company, because the founder usually knows how to sell the best and knows exactly what … And so filling them up and making them incredibly efficient. I just think it makes sense for companies maybe before they even have a sales force.
Ben:	Oh, absolutely.
Scott:	Yeah. Cool, man. I’ll let you get … It’s been a pleasure, it’s great working with you, and I recommend everyone check out GrowLabs. Awesome company. Ben, thank you so much for coming.
Ben:	Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Ben Raffi of Growlabs on B2B Lead Generation & Sales Automation Powered by Machine Learning

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