Tye DeGrange of Round Barn Labs - Startup Growth Marketing

Tye DeGrange of Round Barn Labs - Podcast Transcript

Scott:	Welcome to Founders and Friends Podcast with Scott Orn at Kruze Consulting. My very special guest today is Tye DeGrange of Round Barn Labs. Welcome, Tye.
Tye:	How’s it going, Scott? Good to be here.
Scott:	I’ve known Tye for 3 or 4 years now - good friends. Tye is one of the best Growth Marketers I know. There’s one thing in Silicon Valley that people can’t get enough of, and it’s Growth Marketing. Would you agree?
Tye:	The buzzword of the day.
Scott:	Cash and growth marketing. Those are two of the things you would go for. Tye is phenomenal. He’s given me a million tips. I know he’s really good. I had the advantage of seeing him work with his clients. We were both working on P [inaudible] and he’s got a blue-chip list, so I wanted to have him on the podcast to share a few tips and see if we can make everyone a little bit better at growth marketing.
Tye:	I love it. Thanks so much for having me, and likewise, it’s awesome to see you guys in action at Kruze Consulting and seeing your new day. It looks great.
Scott:	Yeah, when Tye came in here, we were having our team huddle, because there’s software breaking but we’re fixing it. So everything is good. Maybe, Tye, you’d take a few minutes to retrace your career, because you worked at some really great blue-chip companies and have done a lot of cool projects.
Tye:	Awesome. Yeah, I actually started out in this phase at the startup called AdBrite, which was one of the first display networks. Think Atlas. Think DoubleClick Exchange acquired by Google. So my foray into digital was formed into the mix of agencies and brands coming in and saying, ‘Hey, I’ve got 10, 20, 30, 40, 100 grand. Help me acquire customers quickly.’ In those days, the display was a little bit more effective probably than it is now. In its earlier days, as you know the click-through rate started out really high. People were like, ‘What is this? It’s an ad. It’s foreign to me,’ And now we’ve got ad-blockers. So we’ve come a long way.
Scott:	Displays like banner ads and other visual things you’re going to see on BuzzFeed, or Yahoo or things like that.
Tye:	Yeah. Exactly. So that was a great learning experience. I met some amazing people. People from that company went on to do some really impressive things. It was Sequoia-backed so we got some great experience and learnings from that. So it was a really interesting way to get a lot of data learnings around digital. From there I ended up over at Commission Junction, part of ValueClick, a publically traded company which was one of the next big ad networks - larger, more established. I was actually focused on their affiliate marketing division. So I would manage clients like StubHub and significantly groove their affiliate program, which was essentially a revenue share model where StubHub would pay out two bloggers, partners, and websites a percentage of the sales that occur on their website. So it’s one smaller aspect of digital marketing, but it actually makes up a big percentage of budgets for a lot of businesses.
Scott:	It’s a great ROI, right. You only have to pay if it’s converting.
Tye:	Exactly. A lot of businesses find that if it’s managed well, they see really high ROI on it and long-term value - if it’s managed properly. From there, I got the attention of eBay, internet marketing and went on to work for eBay Corporate over down in Campbell. I had a great experience as part of the internet marketing team there and met some amazing people, who’ve gone to some great companies, exposure to folk who’ve gone to Airbnb, and folks who have gone to other big businesses which have been really interesting. And from there it was heavy into blogger content - how do we build the eBay motors brand, how do we acquire GMV customers and revenue for the eBay motors brand. So I learned a ton being exposed to that, I’ve talked about that being almost like a mini MBA. You could get exposed to so much from how does a massive marketplace mature, manage so many global partners and US partners and deal with all that. So that was a really interesting experience. From there I was actually running acquisitions from a Kleiner Perkins backed startup and got to get into the realm of running multiple channels, and running multiple levels. Not just one particular marketing channel. So ‘Going deep into one,’ is a great T-shaped marketer concept that people talk about, the value of being able to go abroad across other channels with some depth, but then very deep in specific areas was value to me and was a lot of fun. Probably one of my more favorite roles in terms of my career. And then, here you are 3 years ago. I decided…I found a lot of people were coming to me with a lot of questions, asking about, ‘What is this thing called customer acquisition. What are some innovative digital marketing things we can do?’
Scott:	One of those people was us - Kruze Consulting.
Tye:	That’s right. It’s been fun. So just wanted to create our own team, our own culture. It’s been a lot of fun. We’ve worked with over 85 businesses - a lot in the startups base, similar to what you guys are focused on in VC-backed growth companies. We’ve really done a ton in that realm and you can imagine the learnings from over the last 3 years. I can’t believe it’s 3 years.
Scott:	Yeah. You’re like Kruze Consulting. Round Barn Lab is a Growth Marketing partner for a ton of startups which is… We found ourselves a fantastic niche and I know you found yourself a lot of success there.
Tye:	Totally. I think we’re in that realm of selling the picks and the shovels to agree in the gold rush of the venture capital growth world or the startup world.
Scott:	Yeah.
Tye:	It’s been interesting and definitely involved in the challenge but it’s been an exciting run, and very interesting.
Scott:	That’s awesome. You’re doing that…consulting, but you’re also running your own company. It’s hard. It’s hard to be both.
Tye:	That’s a really good point. Yeah. You don’t have the luxury to just sit back, and be the mad scientist as sometimes we would like to do. You have to do a lot of the housekeeping, the revenue generation, and the… Everything down to the minutiae, up to the strategy up to the just the basic small business operation. That’s how to do you kind of keep the lights on.
Scott:	I love how you were talking about the T-shaped marketer and being able to go across. That’s probably what your clients love about you. That you can talk SEO and SEM and social and affiliates. I’m asking like the company when they say, ‘What should I be spending money on probably, right?’
Tye:	That’s a really smart question, because one of the biggest challenges we run across is, ‘Where do I place my bets? How do I focus? What should I focus on? What should be the priorities for the next 6 months? Next 6 weeks?’ When every minute counts, you’ve got to burn rate. You’re trying to figure out how you get to the next round of funding; how to show investors that you’ve reached a certain point of either traction, a product-market fit or, ‘Hey, we’re at the growth stage. Give us a Series B.’ So that’s a really spot-on point because that’s one of the bigger things we get. There’s a lot of amazing agencies out there with much more resources than we have, that have been acquired or have a hundred employees. Often times I find that they are really good at one core area. Go figure, so that makes a lot of sense. So your point around being able to go deep in a couple of key areas, but also be able to speak to a lot of these other things as they come up is really helpful for the guys.
Scott:	Yeah, yeah. I would put you in. That’s incomparable expertise you have with the big MCs.
Tye:	Thank you.
Scott:	I know you know your stuff. So we’ve got a couple of things that we’ve got outlined to talk about. The first was B2B marketing, because I think, especially online, people tend to associate that with consumer marketing. First of all our client base is predominantly B2B. People don’t really realize how important that is. You can actually do a lot of amazing stuff online in B2B marketing. Do you want to talk about that and talk through your methodologies?
Tye:	Yeah, that’s a really good one. There is a perception of, ‘Digital marketing, marketing it only works for consumers.’ Or, ‘Sales is what handles B2B.’ Some people’s perception.
Scott:	That’s 10-years ago perception. Not to insult anyone here on the podcast here, but there’s a lot that you can do.
Tye:	Exactly. Like the industry, our firm Round Barn Labs have been inundated with B2B questions and challenges and things like that. While a lot of my career was centered around consumers and leaning more towards consumers, in the last few years it’s gotten more skewered towards B2B, as a more balanced portfolio, if you will. So we’ve had to deal with a lot of these challenges of, ‘How do I drive my marketing qualified leads or MQLs?’ The market challenge of the SaaS industry that’s just exploded. You have the Redpoint Ventures as probably one of the best influencers in this space if you look at their content. Hubspot
Scott:	Tomasz Tunguz.
Tye:	Correct. Boom. There you go. A good person that we have learned a lot from and look to apply nuggets of information to our client challenges and those definitely bear fruit. Hubspot is another one where they have laid out this really interesting growth model and this really interesting playbook that has worked for them. It’s not necessarily going to work for your B2B company, but there’s so much that can be learned from that. So, I think so many businesses have learned what to do, what not to do from those examples.
Scott:	I also think it’s helpful to think about SaaS. I think the SaaS industry does that very well, and one of the reasons they do it well is they focus on the lifetime value of the customer, which maybe is $100 or $1000 or $100,000. They know they can invest a lot to acquire that customer, because, in SaaS businesses, you don’t really churn - ideally you don’t churn very much. So when a SaaS business comes to you and says, just like what we were talking about, ‘Where do I spend my money?’ How do you talk them through that? What do you tell them to evaluate?
Tye:	Absolutely. A lot of it is getting the economics down first and foremost. What is the LTV? What is their estimated cost to acquire a customer? Do we want to come up with that estimated cost to acquire a customer for them? Typically we do, to say, this is what our goal is. This is what we’re going to input in. It’s our economics and our weekly objective, and say, ‘These are the metrics for minding.’
Scott:	By the way, that’s something the VCs look at, like Tomasz if he’s looking at your company is going to look at that. Steve Gillan, who was on the podcast a couple of weeks ago, that’s the first thing he said that he looks at when he’s evaluating a startup. These are important things that you’re actually helping them figure out.
Tye:	Absolutely. So sometimes it’s surprising to hear, some of them understand that but there’s a handful that doesn’t. So there’s a massive benefit to us to almost be in that forcing function. And say, ‘What is the LTV?’ and, ‘Let’s help you figure that out with some data, with some research, with some point of metrics.’ The other thing is just channel strategy. Should we be trying Facebook? Head scratches. Silence. ‘Why should we be doing that? We can go to Google Adwords when people are typing in, ‘I need a CFO.’ ‘So that’s a big one. It harkens back to what you said of, ‘Just coming through with the priorities of what do people need.’ And what we try to do like a lot of good growth marketers is go through that ranking. Whether it’s ICE framework or a lot of other frameworks which help you rank those things to say… A lot of good marketers that maybe don’t even call themselves growth marketers do this. They are thinking about it from a quantitative perspective. They are thinking about it from a…’Okay, what’s a worst case scenario? Middle case scenario? Best case scenario? What [inaudible] do we have to inform the rank stacking? Can we look at our network to inform some of these hypotheses, as opposed to just pulling them out of thin air? Can we look at competitor analyses to say, ‘Hey, what are they spending? What are they doing? Are they on display on LinkedIn? Are they acquiring leads cold and doing outbound emails?’ We’ve actually seen an explosion of that - acquiring of emails and then doing very smart outbound emails which are A/B tested. Very specific A/B testing around that to measure what works and what doesn’t.
Scott:	It’s very interesting. So heard a bunch of really good ideas. Acquire emails outbound, cold emails to convert them. You also talked about different channels. You also talked about knowing your LTV, and knowing your customer acquisition. Then you also talked about the channels - Facebook, Google. What trade offer are people making on Facebook versus Google versus some other platform, or email? How do people think about that?
Tye:	It definitely depends on the business. I think the question you’re asking is, ‘What’s the trade offer? How deep you go in or how do you handle one of those channels?’ I think for B2B, so much of it is - it may sound clichéd - but content focused; what we’re doing right now, what you guys do, what a lot of people do. And kind of thinking it through that framework of ‘Where are they in the funnel in the decision-making process?’ and trying to create content that serves that.
Scott:	It’s interesting. I hadn’t thought about ‘Where they are in the decision-making process?’ It’s such a great way to frame that.
Tye:	I think in that way it’s not like you’re creating content that’s just general, it’s not content that is ‘Buy now.’ But it’s content that helps people think through, ‘Okay, if I start to realize I need a CFO,’ just as an example, ‘then how do I create content that helps me evaluate what type of CFO do I need? What type of cost structure should I consider? What type of financial considerations and validation should I do?’ So that’s a good one that we find. And I think a huge credit obviously goes to Hubspot that is a massive influence there, and some other folks that have really defined that for us and helped us craft that thought.
Scott:	So if someone’s searching for information you’re going to recommend content marketing. If someone’s in that stage where they feel like they may know enough to actually make a decision, is it a more direct response, or what’s a good terminology there?
Tye:	It’s a good question. I think each channel and tactic lives if you look at the decision funnel, in the slide decks you see or like a visual on the left, and then on the right, you can visualize the channel or the tactic that hits that area of the funnel that your customer is in. So things like page search typically run themselves to be a little bit more…You help them type into Google. You’re showing them pretty good intent typically, ‘Best CFOs in San Francisco,’ ‘CFO consulting firms’ - those are so intent based. Those keyword costs are pretty high. So you better have your game plan put together pretty well.
Scott:	We don’t want any leakage.
Tye:	Yeah, they’ll keep an eye out on that. Exactly. So you’ve heard some of these terms before, which is great. And then the funny thing is there is keyword queries that are going to lend themselves to being more discovery and consideration-based. And with those maybe you give them a new pitch with some comparison data of the industry. Or maybe you give them a white paper or case studies. So a channel doesn’t always have to be low on the totem pole of the awareness process or high, but sometimes it can be utilized in multiple states.
Scott:	That’s a good point. Google, for example, is an easy example. Depending on what they are searching for or how they are searching, they may be at different parts of the funnel.
Tye:	Competitors for X, or top 10 X. So there are lots of queries that change the whole nature of the intent.
Scott:	That’s amazing. So when a B2B customer comes to you, or a client comes to you, you’re basically doing all this analysis for them.
Tye:	Exactly.
Scott:	Is it like a big interview session? Is it a lot of content research? How do you go about?
Tye:	Yeah, it’s a little bit of both. There are a lot of tools we can leverage. Google is a good example, then we have keyword research tools that we can leverage. There’s a lot of third-party software tools so we can look at competitor keywords, organic, paid keywords.
Scott:	You do the dawn draper, and Tye in my years experience in 15, 20 years this is what works. And while I’m there story is still the same, I’m sure.
Tye:	I should probably watch Madmen. I think I’ve seen half an episode. But yeah, it’s a great example. I agree to your point, it’s a combination. You do a lot of conversation with the client, whether it’s a weekly call or a monthly strategy session. And then it’s a ton of research and getting your homework together. So they really feel like you understand their business and their space and their industry and you can do what’s best for them. You mentioned, ‘What you’d do? Where should you start when a B2B company comes to you?’ I think, one of the biggest things I don’t think a lot of people don’t realize is customer personal data and how detailed you can get - especially for B2B. They’ve got a boss. They’ve got a budget. They’ve got a timeline. They’ve got a BANT framework like budget and all those different things in that acronym.
Scott:	They care about different things. That they have to please.
Tye:	Yeah, what are their competitor options. We’re always working with clients to aid in the consumer space, as you can imagine. Really understand the customer. It sounds cliché and common but it’s amazing how often it needs to be repeated. You have to hold everyone’s hand to go through the process to say, ‘Let’s really understand who the customer is.’ That way we can be really smart about how we’re targeting them on Facebook with specific audience tactics. Whether it be Lookalike, or Custom or likewise - on any platform. So you could have pages upon pages of customer data if you wanted to, just for one persona. It just depends on the business, but I think it’s another good one tip to remember especially for B2B.
Scott:	I love it. Good tips on B2B. So the next one we talked about as we sketched out was analytics and CRO. I am embarrassed to say, I had to ask what the definition of the CRO was, which shows I have a lot to learn still.
Tye:	You’re not alone.
Scott:	What is CRO?
Tye:	Conversion Rate Optimization. At a simplistic level, you might look what that is. Forget Demandgen for a moment, and running a bunch of ads. Think about your website, your on-boarding experience. How do you get people from starting at your site to taking that action? Is it email they’ll most likely signup? Or is it buy? So how do you do that? And how do you improve the conversion rate? You obviously want to keep that going up into the right. Because every time you do, it has an exponential impact on how efficient your advertising is. Whether it’s [inaudible] paid, right. Big 3. So if you make a small change in conversion rate, you can make a massive impact on - especially if you’re a big business - on saving yourself a ton of money and time. So Optimizely has really made this famous. I mean, the Obama administration… crazy case studies out of their marketing teams when it was so new, in 2008, 2007, 2009 when he had his run-up to his election. A lot of folk involved that went out and started Optimizely which exploded that software tool where you can essentially put a snippet of coding, to easy A/B testing. You’ve heard it. So folks have flooded into this space. I think we’re seeing a lot more folks getting into this business of, ‘How do we improve conversion rate?’ It’s fun because you get to step back, look at the visuals and look at the science, look at the audiences, look at the customer persona and say, ‘Okay, these are some tests we want to run based on how we’ve run some analyses previously, based on what we think is going to be most impactful. Let’s run these tests and let’s get some statistical significance. And let’s see if we can see a lift.’ Often times you don’t always win. People think all the time you’re going to get conclusive results. Or, ‘Hey, this worked and this didn’t.’ Sometimes it’s great. But when you can do it, it’s pretty awesome because you don’t have to spend a dime on tons of paid media. You get to fix your funnel and get people through better.
Scott:	What’s the craziest thing you’ve seen increase..? We hear stories about people tweaking one word, or one sentence on their website and the lift going up 25% or something like that. Those are crazy stories.
Tye:	There’s a few.
Scott:	Have you seen something with your own eyes and you’re like, ‘Oh, my God! I can’t believe that changed it so dramatically?’
Tye:	There are a few out there. Often times- I have to admit from my experience -you’re having to take multiple effects, where you have to fix a couple of different things in the funnel and not just one button. There are case studies out there where people were like, ‘Oh my god, we changed the color from red to green. And it went through the roof.’ I think those are definitely few and far between, but I think for us, we have seen some pretty amazing performance out of like, ‘Okay, let’s start the testing process. Let’s start the discovery process. Let’s implement 3 best practices.’ It’s very common that we see really strong improvement. Looking at it for us, almost 95 % of the time I feel we’re able to significantly improve the metrics of our client, which is fun. It’s not always going to happen, but that’s a fun one for us. But yeah, those wild stories are kind of rare. Anytime we can try to get one in and run it we’re stoked.
Scott:	What’s your high-level recommendation on CRO, and optimizing and A/B testing?
Tye:	I think, often times it’s just doing it and actually putting some thought around saying, ‘These are the tests we want to try.’ And at least giving it a shot and making sure that you have got enough statistical data in significance to warrant: ‘Hey, we’ve actually given this a real shot. It’s an actual experiment. We have a control. We have a treatment.’ Some people get a little excited. They call a winner before it’s done. They throw their hands up and give up. I think growth marketing, digital marketing, all this stuff is a constant…the concept of ‘Growth being never done,’ is an interesting one. People use that quite a lot. I think that is something to be mindful of when you’re going through a process.
Scott:	It’s cool. It’s good advice. The last idea we had is influencers. I feel like there is so much untapped - especially for startups. The big brands will spend a bunch of money with the Kim Kardashians or someone like that and get a lot of the ink. But what can startups do, in terms of influencers?
Tye:	That’s a good one. I’d say it’s interesting because a lot of time, coming in from the affiliate world it’s funny because in a lot of ways that was influencer marketing before it was called influencer marketing.
Scott:	Totally, because you could find a blogger who had a lot of traffic, and you give them a link code and they could cash in. That’s actually why when you were talking about Commission Junction, I was like, ‘Oh, the influencer thing’s going to be awesome.’
Tye:	Yeah. Totally. And now the worlds are almost colliding with the explosion of Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, social in general, you’ve got these followers. Consumers are a lot more responsive to these folks who are helping them to curate stuff and find stuff, and [inaudible] flow to there. So it’s a clear make sense, right? In terms of how startups get involved, I think there are a number of platforms out there that help you manage it. So you’re not just like, ‘Where the heck do I begin? I can’t just search YouTube and find the most valuable guitar player for my guitar lessons class, or my guitar center ad.’
Scott:	So is billing for an AdWord, a search mechanism to find the people that you want to target?
Tye:	Yeah.
Scott:	I didn’t know that that’s interesting.
Tye:	That’s a really good interesting point you bring up because FameBit is a good example, where Google actually just acquired them. So it’s a crazy validation for the influencer space. It’s not always going to work for every business and every startup. It’s very important to know what stage the startup is in to determine whether an influencer should make sense for them. But it’s really cool because in a lot of these platforms you can plug in some key metric and be like, ‘Hey, this is my description. This is my URL. This is what I’m willing to pay out.’ You get hundreds of requests of influencers that would be interested in promoting your product. You get to evaluate them based on various factors like the views. Round Barn Labs, the team and I have come up with a really interesting process around making that a little bit less overwhelming, and being able to rank and go through quickly and say, ‘These are not quality. These are quality.’ Help you prioritize and get more value quickly.
Scott:	Do you track? Do they have a custom URL they are using to promote something?
Tye:	That’s a really good one. There’s a couple of different tools out there that we like to use. Obviously, a lot of times people are using Google UTM perimeters to track things. Often times you can pick things up from Google Analytics to make sure that you’re seeing where things are coming from. You’re also validating, making sure there isn’t any fraud or anything fishy going on. I think the tools out there have gotten better, but I think looking at….one of my favorite ones, if someone’s posting about content and you’re in the e-commerce world, Sniply’s an interesting one that we’ve got some really interesting performance out of, that I find people are starting to use more often. It’s an easy way to turn a content piece into a shop-able experience. There are a few others out there, I think Instagram, Pinterest are catching up a lot. They are behind in some ways compared to Facebook, but it’s easy to say they really are catching up. I think they truly are, in terms of getting more traffic into purchase behavior, getting into the B2C world and the e-commerce world.
Scott:	Feels like all the engagement’s going to Instagram, and SnapChat and Pinterest, too. I’m sure Facebook’s still doing amazing, but I found myself checking it less and using Instagram way more. The same with SnapChat.
Tye:	Totally. I cannot agree more. There are some interesting ways where we have close partners and teams and clients coming to us for things like SnapChat, Pinterest, Instagram. You would be surprised at some of the things you could do with SnapChat that are…I was thinking you have to have $40,000 minimum to do it, but there are things that you could do that’s less crazy expensive that can be interesting. Definitely, create some good content but there are definitely ways to do it so you’re not spending a lot of money.
Scott:	Would you recommend influencers for B2B or are they more consumer marketing? When your clients come to you, how do you think about influencers?
Tye:	I think it’s more B2C, from what we find. I think while we’ve seen the consumerization of enterprise - we talk about that a lot; we see it a lot - it’s happening. It helps in some ways. I think there are opportunities in B2B with influencers. Obviously, they are just a different type of influencer. So are the folks that are experts in that field? A CRO expert might be an influencer for Optimizely. That’s what we’re talking about right now.
Scott:	Yeah, that makes sense.
Tye:	So in a lot of ways we are influencing what tools to use in this conversation - so that’s a mini example. But a lot of the larger platforms where there are volume and mass influencers, especially like Instagram, I think it’s more consumer for now. But similar to like how we started this conversation, 10 years ago, these are some things you couldn’t do in B2B. Here we are doing crazy new stuff on B2B - with the marketing stacks people use, and the stuff Segment is doing now with B2B is amazing. We’ve really leveraged them a lot, and love their webinar and their data and their insights.
Scott:	What do they do? I see them sometimes.
Tye:	They are really impressive. So they are basically like a robust Google Tag the manager where you can basically create a data layer and collect a lot of really insightful data about folks coming on your site and customer information. And then use that across all the experiences. So customer service acquisition, onsite email to serve out more relevant stuff to them. That’s my way of describing them. So you can use them as a tag solution, you can use them as a data layer. Sometimes you combine the two. It helps with tracking. It helps with consumer insights, especially for B2B and some of the really cool stuff they are doing. So we’ve actually started to implement that a lot as a tool. In terms of the B2B, they are one of the tops of our list in terms of the marketing stack.
Scott:	That’s awesome. I’ll check that out. So if you were to summarize your tips for a startup. I love the case of the SeriesA SeriesB startup comes to you - because really that’s our client base - comes to you and is like, ‘Tye, I heard about you on this incredible podcast called Founders and Friends.’
Tye:	Incredible.
Scott:	Incredible. ‘What do you recommend I do?’ How do you analyze them? how do you give them a recommendation?
Tye:	I think it’s interesting. A lot of times it’s assessing the resources that they have, really diving into their customer. and then looking at the channel that they are using now. So, what’s the balance of paid and unpaid? What type of budget do they have? Going back to our earlier conversation, what kind of economics can they even afford? There are times where it doesn’t make sense to do paid marketing. To stepping completely back from it, some companies who are doing paid marketing realize they don’t really have the structure to support it. And so those are some considerations. Just saying, ‘What’s your model for growth? Are you someone that needs to have content created? And then pay search engines to crawl your content and let folks discover you through that. Or are you more of a sales driven organization. I know a T-tool that’s going to go straight into stores or Amazon as more of a strategy. So just starting from square one and saying, ‘How do you need to grow this?’ Sometimes it’s multiple loops that create those growth mechanisms.
Scott:	Yeah, you got a lot of people coming here. You’re selling your product. They are all coming to your website and all of a sudden Amazon’s interested in carrying you because you’re doing so well.
Tye:	Then suddenly the digital becomes much less critical from a: ‘How do we acquire customers?’ So evaluating just from square one, so that knowing, ‘Hey, what’s the run rate?’ Some of those realities if it had been a Series A, Series B, and fortunately in that range, they’ve reached product-market fit most likely. So that helps a lot. We can think that typically means there is a channel that is working, and we can throw some fuel on that fire to say it’s working but how do we really dig into Optimizely and that’s where a really quick CRO can come in nicely.
Scott:	I love it. Those are some really good tips. Maybe you could tell everyone where they can find you.
Tye:	Yeah, absolutely. Email’s easy tye@roundbarnlabs.com. Obviously, our website roundbarnlabs.com and we hang out on Twitter a fair amount. We like to read and get information and learn about the latest and greatest but also post some new stuff, and new tips and tricks and strategies. So we’d love to chat with you and would love to answer any question that you have.
Scott:	You guys have a good Medium Series, too. I always read your Medium posts.
Tye:	Much appreciated. Much appreciated. We’re trying to throw a lot more of that, and we’re excited about it. It’s a fun platform.
Scott:	Tye, thank you for coming on. Everyone can find Tye at Round Barn Labs. He is one of the best growth marketers in the Valley. I can attest to that. He is awesome to work with. He’s given me a lot of tips. Thank you for coming on the podcast.
Tye:	Thanks so much, Scott. I appreciate it.
Scott:	Take care, man.
Tye:	Alright. Bye.

Tye DeGrange of Round Barn Labs - Startup Growth Marketing

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