Marcelino Pantoja Discusses Launching the First VC Index Fund

Marcelino Pantoja of Measurement - Podcast Transcript

Scott:	Hey, it’s Scott Orn, Kruze Consulting. And thanks for joining us on Founders and Friends for another awesome podcast. Let’s give a quick shout out to the Kruze Consulting accounting team. We’re very fortunate. We have a ton of people at Kruze who work on the monthly books for our clients and get them all set up, due diligence ready, rocking every month, answering all the clients’ questions, making all those adjustments. There’s no better moment for a founder, and for us really, when a founder says, “Hey, I think I’m going to get a term sheet. Are my books ready for diligence?” And we get to say, “Yes, they are. Fire away. Send them over. Give them access.” That is a great feeling. It’s the feeling that lets us know we’ve done a job very well done, and nothing is better than watching that cash in the bank account. So, if you are a venture backed startup, you’re going out to raise funds, maybe check us out. Check us out at Kruzeconsulting.com. We love what we do. At taping here, I think we have 575 clients. Clients raised over a billion dollars this year, so we know what we’re doing and hopefully we can help you be successful in your fund raise. All right, let’s get to the podcast. Thanks.
Singer:	So, when your troubles are mounting in tax or accounting you go to Kruze Founders and Friends. It’s Kruze Consulting Founders at Friends with your host, Scotty Orn.
Scott:	Welcome to Founder and Friends podcast with Scott Orn, Kruze Consulting. And today my very special guest is Marcelino Pantoja of Measurement Fund. Welcome, Marcelino.
Marcelino:	Scott, thank you for having me today.
Scott:	I’m super excited to talk about this, because you are doing something that I think is amazing in the venture capital asset class. Do you mind kind of retracing your career and tell everyone how you had the idea for Measurement?
Marcelino:	Sure, of course, actually, to just give you some context, my very first job straight out of college was to work at Wilson Sonsini, which is a law firm based in Palo Alto. And I was actually an assistant to a paralegal. My task at the time was to print out stock certificates after every venture round of financing for these startups. So, if you recall at the time, preferred shares were printed on blue pieces of paper and common shares were printed on green. And I had to make sure that the …
Scott:	I didn’t know that. That’s crazy.
Marcelino:	Right. And I had to make sure that the names and the shared counts were accurate at the time. So that was my first introduction to startups 15 years ago.
Scott:	I also love how you started at the quote unquote bottom. It’s like, we all started there. I was an investment banking analyst, binding my presentation books at three in the morning myself, and that just builds character. Right?
Marcelino:	It does. And at the time I thought I was going to go to law school, but I saw investing with startups was so much more fun and much more interesting, even though it was a time when venture was considered dead back in …
Scott:	Oh yeah. What years were that? Like 2005?
Marcelino:	‘07, actually.
Scott:	‘07, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marcelino:	And as a result, from that, I only spent about six months there, and apparently that was enough for me to be able to get a role at the investment office for Stanford University to oversee the [crosstalk].
Scott:	Amazing. Good for you.
Marcelino:	Well if you recall at the time, venture was dead. They had this direct investment portfolio that no other school has where the school gets to participate in these deals by passing a fee and carrying these funds just because the senior GP at these funds are Stanford alums, and they love Stanford. But that was enough experience. It was a two-year analyst role. I actually stayed on for six years. And the team was quite new because Stanford then had this endowment CIO that was quite new at the time because the previous endowment team went to form a large fund firm called Mechanic Capital.
Scott:	Yeah, I know one of the partners there.
Marcelino:	It’s almost like it was an opportunity for me where just because of luck, I had a chance to get a role there where I was able to stay on for six years and learn everything there is to know about investing in startups, as well as investing in fund managers.
Scott:	And for those that don’t, it’s like Stanford and probably Yale and Harvard are, and it pains me to say that as a CAL Alum, UC is a top 10 endowment and is very active too, but Yale, Stanford and Harvard have huge endowments. And so, they get to invest in the best funds. And like you said, the alumni base is often a GP at a venture capital fund or something like that, too. So, it’s a top, top, you saw the best of the best.
Marcelino:	Yes. But at the same time, I went to Yale for undergrad. I was a beneficiary of Davis Winston’s work and fund managers that he selected. So, I think it’s a privileged position they have, but it’s also something about the alumni, especially the fund managers, they love the schools. They give so much back to these schools. It was an incredible position for me to see how the best fund managers operate, how they work, not just in venture, but across all asset classes.
Scott:	Yeah. Yeah.
Marcelino:	So, from there, I actually thought I was going to be a lifer at the endowment. And instead, one of the VCs of the many that I met there, was starting his own fund which is called Costa Noa Ventures.
Scott:	Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marcelino:	This is Greg Sans. And he was previously at Sutter Hill ventures, which is a storage firm in the valley that has done incredibly well. And for me at the time, it was a way to learn something beyond just evaluating fund managers and managing a portfolio of fund managers. And from that, I actually had the chance to join him in 2013 to help them build a firm, to go through the whole entrepreneurial experience of building a fund, an institutional quality fund, going through the process of helping him fundraise, managing an existing portfolio, helping founders, the whole works. And it was a good experience overall.
Scott:	It’s also especially amazing to be on the ground floor of a fund being created, because you see the venture capital asset class has a lot of, it’s very good at marketing itself, honestly. And so, there’s a lot of glitz and glam, so to speak. But you see how hard it is and how hard operations are and getting those first capital commitments from the LPs and all that stuff. You wouldn’t know this about me, but I was a partner at a venture lending fund called Lighthouse. But I was at fund four as an associate, working my way up. But even though I wasn’t one of the people who really built the firm, I could see how hard it was on a daily, weekly basis. So, I have a lot of respect for people who start their own funds because usually they can just stay at Sutter Hill or Kleiner or Sequoia or whatever and have a great life, but they’re trying something different. And kudos to you for being along for the ride there and getting in early.
Marcelino:	Well, I had to recognize, especially Greg, I mean he left the fund, they have the same set of LPs that always re up every year. He had to go from that to then pounding the pavement, knocking on doors, shaking hands.
Scott:	I know, I know.
Marcelino:	It was, so for him to do that, I admire that, and also to do it from out of nowhere. But then the other part is unlike today, new funds were not as common for him to go through, and for me to get firsthand experience in helping him build the firm was valuable because it helped me assess what it really took to build an institutional quality fund. Because at Stanford, I got to see the best fund managers already being the best fund managers.
Scott:	Yeah, totally, totally.
Marcelino:	They already have the clients, or even if they were evaluating an up and coming fund manager, there was something behind that up and coming fund manager that the level of work it took to build that kind of fund perhaps was not as much when they ‘re at that caliber versus what I saw working with Greg. And then it’s one thing as an LP, you request all these materials or this analysis or you ask all these questions and you don’t even think much of it. But on the other side …
Scott:	It’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of work. I remember we would take two weeks to sit in a conference room and prep for annual meeting every year because there’s so much data we had and tend to fine tune it and give people answers to the questions they wanted and have everything, even have the data updated because a lot of the portfolio companies weren’t the greatest at responding to us or things like that. It’s tough. It’s really tough.
Marcelino:	So, it was a wonderful experience there with Gray and at Costa Noa. I left in 2016 thinking I was going to go back to the endowment world, and instead I found myself advising a few funds. And then most recently I was advising Tribe where I actually then joined them in 2020 and helped them build their firm there. And in Tribe’s case, that’s the former early stage team at Social Capital, which would be Maidenberg, Arjun Sethe and Jonathan Hsu. And what I loved about them is their investment thesis, quantifying product market fit and how they took a more of a startup approach to building their firm, which was different from what other funds are doing. And that was an incredible experience to get, working with them during the time that I was there with them.
Scott:	And coming out of Social Capital also, they kind of like, I don’t know the details, but I know that was kind of an unexpected departure for a lot of people at that firm. Social capital kind of changed overnight. So also, that probably taught them the value of kind of controlling their own destiny in the fund worlds and building … Probably went through the same exact exercise that Costa Noa went through building their fund.
Marcelino:	Well, you have your own investment philosophy, your own investment thesis, and then your own conviction behind it, to then take that true step of informing that new fund or new firm or even new company to act on and exercise that on what you believe and what you’re trying to create. So frankly, I took some time advising them first before joining them officially and helping them build a firm. And I wouldn’t have left if it wasn’t for what I’m working on today.
Scott:	Yeah, well, talk about Measurement. I’m super excited about it.
Marcelino:	Oh, definitely. The idea came about through these discussions through a seed fund manager, whose name is Tim Connors of Pivot North Capital. And I’ve known Tim since [crosstalk]
Scott:	I knew Tim, I don’t know him well, but I interacted with him a little bit way back in the day when he was at USBP, maybe?
Marcelino:	That’s right.
Scott:	And he actually, there’s a little story, he led the seed before seed was cool.
Marcelino:	Yes.
Scott:	He led it in a little company called Remotive, which then turned into Zipline.
Marcelino:	That’s right.
Scott:	And I was a small co-investor at Lighthouse in Remotive which became Zipline. And it’s got to be like a humongous home run for him. But he re-upped when it wasn’t looking too great on the pivot. And so, I give that guy tons of credit for being there for Keller and the team. And they’re doing big things at Zipline now, so I’m familiar with his work.
Marcelino:	I appreciate you sharing that. He is incredible. And I’ve known him since my time at Stanford. He was one of the VCs on the various investment committees that I was reporting to because of the direct investment portfolio that Stanford had. And he actually is a solo GP, Pivot North Capital is the name of the firm that he has. And before that, he actually started Sequoia Capital. He was there for about three years. And then from there, he went to USBP where he was there for about six years, six or seven years before forming Pivot North. But solo GP because he wants to work closely with the founder and help the founder go through that customer development phase to get them to the product market. He’s hands on. He actually brings to bear, helping not just his network access and resources that he has, but really going through that company formation stage, actually going through the details behind it to help get to that point. And we were talking for the past few years about this idea of creating a different type of fund that can back the best companies that would come out of not just his portfolio, but other seed fund managers out there. And it was only till last year that we realized that it was time to do it. And he essentially offered a backing, and not only that, but helping build this. And it was giving me the opportunity to be a founder of an asset management company startup where, because of my experience and background as a former OP as well as an experience in building institutional quality funds, I believe that working with a true company builder like Tim, like why not? Let’s go for it. Let’s do it.
Scott:	Yeah, and you had the background, you’ve seen it all. You’ve seen every side of the equation, and it’s kind of maybe that moment to take the leap yourself.
Marcelino:	Right, exactly. Well, that’s what it. It was to do it, but to do it with somebody whose reputation I’ve known well and who I’ve seen. I mean, you mentioned Zipline. Obviously, there are other companies like Chime and Looker, for example, that it’s nice to work with a winner who knows what it takes to actually build something successful.
Scott:	Yeah, that’s awesome.
Marcelino:	But to add to that, it was not just him though, also. So, the other person that I’m working with, Tim created a, so he has this fund, he created a studio platform that is actually called Platform, a venture studio. And he did it with Jeremy Burton who’s a former CTO and co-founder at a company called Winola, that’s also one of Tim’s portfolio companies and is a Sequoia backed company that’s done incredibly well. And to work with both Tim and Jeremy, who also is a company builder, who knows what it takes to go through the stages of building a company from just a concept. And working with him and Tim, that’s when I knew that there was substance behind this idea that we can actually act on versus just exploring a concept in the first place.
Scott:	Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. And then, when you go to Measurement, your group’s website, one of the first things you see is the word index, venture capital index, which I think is such a fascinating moment in the venture capital industry. Because Tim, for example, and again, I don’t know him well. I just know of him and have been on a couple of cap tables. But he started his seed fund when seed was not cool. No one wanted to do seed back then. It wasn’t cool at all. And furthermore, you kind of had a hard time getting fall on capital for your companies. So, through his eyes and through your work at Stanford and with Cosa Noa, you’ve seen how the markets have kind of matured, the venture markets, and it feels like they’re getting more and more liquid, more people coming in. And it feels like to me, the market is getting ready to be able to handle index plays, which I think is fascinating. And I think that’s kind of what you’re doing. It’s the moment in time where you’ve been building it and now you’re at the right moment in time to actually execute on it.
Marcelino:	Well, I’m biased here, but I think he has a vision of where the market is transforming. And of course, as an investor, he’s making a bet on that transformation itself to actually make it happen. And I am here as a founder of what we’re building as an asset management company startup, we’re exercising on that bet, acting on it, excuse me, to make that transformation happen. The idea of being that today … So, let me show you the thesis behind what we’re trying to build here, which is that founders today, especially their management teams, are much more sophisticated. They know, once they find product market fit, they know how to build and scale their companies to become very successful and become public at a multi-billion-dollar market cap value.
Scott:	There’s also just so much more info out there, not just from the VCs, but from all the best practices and all the video content. And in a way you can get an education as a founder ahead of time and not have to live every mistake, which I think is different from what I look back on like …
Marcelino:	Help each other, excuse me
Scott:	Help each other, that’s the best point. They help each other so much more because they’re connected and they’ve gone through the same patterns. And so, I totally agree. Founders have access to more information, are more self-sufficient, can learn more, and don’t have to learn it the hard way every time. They still do learn the hard way sometimes, but that’s just life.
Marcelino:	Well, I mean, it’s still difficult, but it’s gotten much easier to build and scale a company once you have product market fit. But yet you have these fund managers who operate after the seed rounds, at the expansion to growth stage place stage operating as though they’re very hands on and doing all this work, all this quote unquote value add. And many of them do. I’m not denying it. But our investment thesis is that the majority of them are just capital providers. And yet at the same time, they’re charging a premium fee essentially for market returns. So, our thinking here is that why not identify who the true CBCs are, which I term them as company builders, who are helping founders build their companies to get them to product market fit, and then create a fund that is much more economically efficient to invest in those companies, back those companies beginning at whether it’s A or B round, all the way to exit.
Scott:	Hey, it’s Scott Orn. And we’re going to take a quick break from the podcast to give a shout out to the Kruze tax team. Gosh, it’s so nice to have an in-house tax team. I can’t even tell you. We have some really amazing professionals on the team. It’s over, I think it’s 13 people now. And we do everything from your federal, state income tax return, state franchise tax filings, R and D tax credits. Those are pretty popular these days. And guess what? They’re there for you when you go through diligence. A lot of people don’t know this, but you actually go through tax diligence, not just operational kind of financial diligence, but you do go through tax diligence. So it’s nice to have Vanessa Kruze on the phone with your VCs and with the accounting firm they hire to diligence all your stuff, and with the law firm they hire to diligence all your stuff. Vanessa knows what she’s doing. She’s done this a million times, and it’s not just Vanessa. We have a really great team of tax professionals that will do those calls too. It’s sometimes the difference between getting around close or having to take another two weeks because something was disorganized and tax compliance wasn’t done correctly. We hear those horror stories from clients that come to us. So, hey, if you want Kruze’s tax team on your side, we’re here for you. Check us out at Kruzeconsulting.com. Thanks. I love it, because I have a CFA, MBA. The word index to me is like a positive because it means diversification. It typically means lower fees. In the public markets S and P 500, the NASDAQ, these index products that you can buy, are passively managed and they’re very affordable. You’re not paying the old school. Like when my dad was buying stocks 30 years ago or 40 years ago, he’s paying a broker a thousand dollars a transaction, whatever it was, something crazy. And so that’s why I actually say the ability to index in venture capital will be a net positive for everybody because those fees and carry and things like that have to come from somewhere. And they typically come from either the capital provider side, the foundations, endowments, institutions that are providing the capital or they come from the founders. The founders are experiencing a dilution. So, in a way, it’s actually a net positive for the founders to be able to work with indexed capital. And the other thing I see, we were talking about this before I turned the mics on, but I have friends that are Wall Street or big financial institutions, all those firms are building pathways into the venture capital asset class because their clients, the high net worth individuals or family offices, want exposure to that in an affordable way. They’re sophisticated. They don’t want to pay crazy fees. So, they need it to be affordable, but also diversified. So, there’s this culmination of trends happening and it feels like the venture capital asset class is hitting that moment.
Marcelino:	It is, it is. Everything that you see, and then this is what I’ve shared with friends in the industry, they are fund managers, LPs, founders, what have you. I’ll share that everything that happened in the public markets will happen in the private markets as well.
Scott:	Yeah. Yeah.
Marcelino:	It will become much more efficient. And a lot of it has to do because of the volume of transactions, the volume of activity, the volume of startups being formed and the volume of investors out there.
Scott:	I’d also say like technology and visibility and understanding key metrics and things like that. The information asymmetries are not as strong as they used to be. In 2002 when I started working with venture capital, it was like the stone age. You didn’t even have cost acquisition. LTV weren’t even really things that people thought of. It was crazy.
Marcelino:	Well, back in the eighties, a quote terminal before the Bloomberg terminal, that was a big deal and that something that made public market investing much more efficient.
Scott:	Totally, yeah. So, it’s similar stuff. So, what’s Measurement’s role in the process and are you investing capital directly in the companies? How does it work?
Marcelino:	What we’re doing is, yes, it is investing directly into the company, but we’re collaborating with the seed fund manager. So, our view is that the CVC, we call them company builders. I don’t want to necessarily distinguish it as just them being a seed fund manager, which they are. But they have their own funds, their own owner subscribed funds. They’re successful. They have an incredible track record, and they have a reputation as company builders. They attract the right set of founders and are going to build the next set of compelling companies. But the thing is, to go through that customer development phase, that early stage, it’s incredibly cheap. You only need capital once you want to begin the scale afterwards, after you find product market fit. The whole experimentation, all you need is a laptop and an AWS account to just start it.
Scott:	It’s crazy, right?
Marcelino:	Exactly, and for the seed fund managers to have a small seed fund is actually just the right size to invest and get the returns that they’re aiming for, if they’re successful for the course. But what happens is that, yes, they get a board seat at the very beginning, especially for people like Tim, they’re disciplined investors and they have conviction in terms of their backing. But as soon as these companies are successful, they’re raising from other fund managers who then are asking for board seats and certain rights and preferences, and essentially pushing aside the initial investor who helped the founder get to that stage, even though they can still remain on the board and provide the oversight that the company needs, especially that the founder wants because that’s the first person that believed in them to get all the way to exit.
Scott:	It’s also sometimes they’re not even allowed to do their own pro ratas or things like that, right? The big fund is pushing them around a little bit, and they experience dilution that they shouldn’t really experience.
Marcelino:	All because the bigger funds have more capital to provide. That’s it.
Scott:	Yep.
Marcelino:	Now that doesn’t mean that they don’t provide any value add, some do. But our view is that if I could use a metaphor, there shouldn’t be too many cooks in the kitchen, especially since the first cook was the one who helped the company founder get there.
Scott:	Yep, yep.
Marcelino:	Our views then are that then why not raise a fund that can back the best companies out of the seed fund portfolios in collaboration with them, and ask them to remain on the board? We’re not asking for board seats. If anything, all we’re asking is that any independent board members be added, that they also be people who are skilled and experienced in scaling companies. And otherwise, we’ll just stay out of the way. As long as the company meets or exceeds the relevant metrics or milestones at each stage of financing, they should just get automatic funding from us at every stage. Now that doesn’t mean that we’ll be able to lead every round. I mean, we’re just starting. But over time, to be the source of capital for the best companies.
Scott:	Would you set the valuation or how would that dance go? How does that work?
Marcelino:	Yes, our view that the market has changed. It’s a big market now. There’s more than enough comparables. So, valuation, it is a dance and continues to operate as one, but the reality is, a lot of companies out there just look at others who operate in similar stages and whether they’ve accomplished similar milestones and certain metrics, there’s not much really to negotiate for what’s out there.
Scott:	Everyone kind of knows the range.
Marcelino:	Yes, because the market’s become much more efficient. I mean, don’t get me wrong, some would argue it was a bit frothy last year. I can’t disagree. But the market adjusts overall, and even the dispersion between ones that are pretty extreme or not, it goes within a certain range, just showing how the market’s become much more efficient than it was ten years ago.
Scott:	Yeah. So, you guys, so if I understand the flow correctly, the seed stage fund that helped build the company knows the startup is about ready for some more equity capital. And so, they’ll reach out to measurement and say, “Hey, we’re thinking about adding some more money in here. What do you think? Do you want to take a look?” And then how does your process work from that point on?
Marcelino:	So, Tim is the first seed fund manager that we’re working with, and then we have two others that we’re already talking to, and then there are others that we’re already identifying before meeting with them. But already having a preexisting relationship with Tim who I’ve known for essentially 12 years now, that’s important because it allows us to collaborate and get to meet the founders way ahead of time before anybody else does. And we want to build a similar relationship with the other seed fund managers that we have identified, so that we can get to know their portfolio company founders and do that level of work and analysis to identify those companies to invest in. And that’s only possible if it’s based on a level of trust and that takes time. So, we’re intentionally taking the time to meet with the others that we want to work with and build a similar relationship that we have with Tim so that we can do that. So, in a way, the founders could see it as we’re that seed fund manager’s teammate.
Scott:	Yeah. That’s a good way of saying it, like you’re on the same team. And I got to imagine after a while, you’ll start getting it, it’s almost like you’re on the approved list or something like that. Because with index investing comes more liquidity in a market in general. Because that’s the other trend we’re seeing at Kruze is the markets are more liquid. The best companies raise money every six to 12 months now or nine months or it’s happening faster. And I think some of that’s like the market was frothy and things like that. But also, the metrics and ability to understand the company and ability to kind of keep in touch with them is much easier for people. And so, I could see you guys benefiting from that trend as well.
Marcelino:	Benefiting from it, but also acknowledging that it exists.
Scott:	Yeah.
Marcelino:	Meaning where other fund managers are still operating as though the private markets are that incredibly inefficient or opaque, if that’s the right word. It’s well known how these fundraising should operate, yet you see founders still spending time fundraising, quite a bit of time fundraising, when they should be focusing on building their companies.
Scott:	Yeah, that’s also the big payoff for them, the focus. This is amazing. You’re really onto something here. Do you have LPs? Do you have a fund? What’s the investing mechanism right now?
Marcelino:	Right now, we’re barely at the very beginning. We’re also going through the customer development phase of talking to the LPs, talking to founders and talking to other CVCs in order to make sure that this actually makes sense to them and that this is something that they would want to have, which they do. Feedback has been enthusiastic. But we started primarily first with LPs because we want to be sure that our fund structure makes sense to them. So, for example, ours is going to be an evergreen fund structure. That way we can raise capital and in a scalable manner to provide to the best companies that come out of these portfolios, to be more of a permanent capital source of vehicle, just like it’s happening in private equity. So that way that …
Scott:	I have to believe the family offices like that, too, because the fund cycle can lead to adverse consequences or poor decisions sometimes. A fund might decide to leave a company or liquidate half of it or something like that because they want to recycle the capital back to the LP so that the LPs can commit in the next fund. Whereas if it’s evergreen, it’s like Fidelity or how they buy stock. They just sit there and they hold it for a long time.
Marcelino:	And yet we’re doing that because we’re replicating what index funds do in the public markets.
Scott:	Yeah.
Marcelino:	In order for it to be economically efficient, it means instead of charging, being uncommitted capital and carrying as traditional private funds do, it’s going to be a management fee on AUM. Which for most institutional fees, especially large institutional fees, that’s something that they’re actually intimately familiar with and would rather have than what exists today. So, us creating …
Scott:	Well, they’re already paying a management fee, they just don’t have to pay the carry. Because usually also when index funds get standardized, the fee as a percentage of the fund value marches down over time. Because the index gets more efficient, the pools of capital get greater, you don’t have to charge such a high fee. So, it’s like efficiency from capitalism at its best, basically.
Marcelino:	Right. And the part about it is that we’re charging no carry because we recognize that it’s earning market returns. That is the value that the founders are creating to build the value there. And the way we’re incentivized is at scale, but also performance. As long as these companies continue to outperform and grow, then we are earning, the management [inaudible] that is, we’re we’re earning.
Scott:	Yeah, yeah.
Marcelino:	What we’re earning.
Scott:	It’s really cool.
Marcelino:	But then the other part is also just to add to this, is that when I started at Stanford, only in dominant LPs like Stanford and other equivalent schools out there were able to reap the windfalls from venture returns or from new startups. And only until recently were there more participants in our asset class. But even then, that’s not spread as evenly as one would like to believe it to be.
Scott:	Totally, totally.
Marcelino:	Our view is that there are quite a few small endowments and foundations that will never be able to access this kind of opportunity that we can provide now through this. And then there are quite a number of professional investors or even people in tech, other founders and entrepreneurs as well as executives at these large tech companies, they’re the ones creating all this value, yet they themselves cannot reap the windfall from all the value that they create. The reason we called it an index fund is because we want to make this accessible, not just institutional piece, they want venture exposure to top returns and venture, but also to all the other participants in the ecosystem that also wants to invest in this.
Scott:	I love it. I think you’re onto something, Marcelino. Well, I got to be respectful of your time, so we should probably wrap up. But can you tell everyone how to find you, how to reach out to Measurement if they want to participate, hear the pitch? How can they reach you?
Marcelino:	Oh yes, on our website Measurement.fund, if you can go and sign up there, I personally am responding to every person that’s provided their contact information there. And then that way we can connect primarily of course LPs, because we’re in the very beginning, but we’re also meeting with other VCs that are out there because we want to meet with every company builder that is truly helping their founder go through the early days of building a new company. And then of course with founders as well, because of course at the end of the day, they’re the ones who are the true company builders.
Scott:	And they’re going to benefit a lot from it.
Marcelino:	Oh yes.
Scott:	Well thank you Marcelino. Check out Measurement Fund. Really appreciate your time. Thank you so much, and I’ll catch you later.
Marcelino:	Thank you for having me, Scott. I appreciate it.

Marcelino Pantoja from Measurement discusses launching the first venture capital index fund that brings in investors at the beginning

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