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With Scott Orn

A Startup Podcast by Kruze Consulting

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Scott Orn

Scott Orn, CFA

Siro gives salespeople great sales coaching

Posted on: 02/25/2024

Jake Cronin

Jake Cronin

Co-Founder & Co-CEO - Siro

Jake Cronin of Siro - Podcast Summary

Jake Cronin, co-founder of Siro, explains how Siro makes great sales coaching available to salespeople, helping them realize their potential.

Jake Cronin of Siro - Podcast Transcript

Healy: Hey, this is Healy Jones from Kruze Consulting. Welcome to the Founders and Friends podcast. Today, our special guest is Jake Cronin, a CEO and co-founder of Siro, which is an AI-driven sales enablement tool. He’s just raised a massive, awesome Series A. We’re going to dig into that. We’re going to learn a little bit about how startups should be doing sales. But first, a quick word from our sponsor. Hey, this is Healy Jones, VP of Financial Strategy here at Kruze Consulting, and  I want to say thanks to our podcast sponsor, ARC. At Kruze, we’ve got a number of clients successfully using ARC to manage their deposits, payments, access financing, all in one place. One of the things that ARC provides that’s really great is over a quarter of a million dollars in FDIC coverage. Their insurance program goes beyond the standard limit and it secures up to five and a quarter million dollars. So, startups that have even more cash than that can go and access treasury solutions to provide yield and safety. If you’re a startup looking for a secure financial solution that can help you scale, please check out our sponsor ARC at ARC.tech.
Jake: I’m doing very well, Healy. Thank you for the intro.
Healy: You’re a Kruze client. You’re doing really well. This is exciting. We love it when our clients are successful. This is a really hard time to fundraise. You’ve got a company that’s growing great. Before we dive into that stuff, let’s pull back a little bit and just learn a little bit about what led to you founding Siro. How’d you come up with this idea? It’s obviously working out great.
Jake: Yeah. How about this? We’ll rewind all the way back to high school when, as my co-founder says it, we were selling kitchen knives to moms.
Healy: Okay.
Jake: I like the founding origin story because it’s sort of a … We’re in good company. David Heath of Bombas, Travis Kalanick of Uber, also got their start selling Cutco knives. Same first job that I had, same first job that my co-founder, Joe, had. What was really cool about selling Cutco knives as an eighteen-year-old, before I went to college, was I was actually making more money per month selling kitchen knives than I would later as a business analyst at McKinsey.
Healy: Wow.
Jake: Which is kind of mind-blowing, even more so in hindsight. That’s how I got into field sales to begin. You learn a ton about yourself, a ton of very useful skills. But I’m more of a math guy, more of an engineer. So, when I was in college and learning how to code, my first thought of what I could build with this newfound power was, “Let me build an app to help digitize some of the pencil and paper workflows of running a Cutco office.” I was building that thing and tinkering with it as this fun project. Later went to McKinsey as a business analyst, where your day-to-day tools are Excel, PowerPoint, email. No coding. So continued to code this pet project on the side. That’s how I met my co-founder. One day I was checking out my app on the app store and I saw right next to it was a very similar looking app. So, I reached out to the guy a bit confused, like, “This world is too small for two apps to serve this one company.” We got along really well. Over a couple of calls, we had similar values. Frankly, similar backgrounds. Decided to team up, merge companies and turn that into a little business. What was going through my mind at the time is, I joined McKinsey, this consulting firm, that lets you work in many different industries, serve clients all over the world. I realized there was no industry more overlooked or underserved than the world of field sales. So, Joe and I got together and thought, “You know what? This side business we put together is doing quite well. Really validates our hypothesis that this world of field sales that a lot of the coastal elites or the tech world is unaware of, it’s actually a huge space and there’s so much more value that software can create.” So, we decided to go all in. I left my job, he threw away his post-college job offer, and we decided to set out and solve the biggest problem in field sales. Which we didn’t know what it was at the time, so we did a lot of exploring.
Healy: Amazing.
Jake: That led us to the journey to discover the biggest problem in field sales, which is most sales reps suck because they aren’t coached. And then in comes Siro.
Healy: Amazing. That’s awesome. Yeah, so actually, I worked for a company called Sunrun, which was a residential solar installer. I think when I joined there was 12 salespeople. When I left, there were 300 plus another 300 outside sales reps who were embedded in Home Depots and Costcos and things like that. We would always have these huge training initiatives where we had to bring everybody together. So, it’s basically like, “Which time of the month are all sales going to stop while everybody comes together for these big training sessions?” I mean, they were a lot of fun, but it’s hard to train people out in the field. You don’t always know exactly what’s going on. That’s a really, really cool problem. So, you were at McKinsey for a while, which, clearly, one of the top consulting firms. I actually talked to one of these data-driven VC guys. He’s like, “Yeah, if someone’s been at Google or McKinsey, they’re usually higher likelihood of success,” or whatever. So, there must be something going on right there other than just hiring brilliant people. What did you learn while you were at McKinsey that actually is helping you as a startup founder here?
Jake: Yeah, they do an absolutely amazing job building up this generalist toolkit, is what they call them. A lot of the things that I think I bring to the table as a founder are just being kind of fast to write an email, being able to take good notes in a meeting, structure things and just think strategically, build the PowerPoint and also the Excel. This very broad base of skills, which is really useful when you’re a founder and you wear every single hat in the closet. So that’s what McKinsey brought to the table. One more piece that I’ll bring in, too, is the confidence. When you join McKinsey, might be 22 years old and you’re thrown into, maybe it’s a board meeting with the CEO of a Fortune 500 company present. So, you are put at the big boy table, big girl table right away. That confidence that you need to fill the shoes, or you are able to fill the shoes, if you believe it, is actually very similar to sales. Like, “Pretend there’s no ceiling above. Just run. Believe in yourself and bet on yourself.” McKinsey does a great job doing that for you professionally. In a similar way that a company like Cutco or any sort of sales organization might do that for you in a slightly different way, where it pushes you to stretch what you believe is possible. So, McKinsey was really, really useful for me.
Healy: Of course, the role is probably pretty different. Where’s the challenging stuff that you see? Is it different? How is being a McKinsey analyst very different from being a startup founder? I imagine that there’s some pretty massive differences there you have to think about every day.
Jake: Yeah. Well, first of all, it’s both ways harder, but also, way more fun. This isn’t a McKinsey thing. I think it’s just client services is so hard because you need to do the stuff that’s not actually value add or doesn’t seem important. If you’re doing client services, someone asks you to do something, the client asks you to put together this deck or email this thing to these folks or change the strategy this way, you sort of have to do it. Some of that tedious work. But as a founder, you get to do only what’s important. You have full control over what do you think is important to do and is not. That is awesome. That’s why I love my job so much. But it’s just way harder to know that if you fail, you’re screwed. At McKinsey, it is so hard to actually fail. Yes, you’re very independent, but there are so many smart people around you. There are so many systems, the culture, and an almost invisible infrastructure around you that prevents you from failing. Even though it doesn’t feel super safe, you’re uncomfortable and stretched. Not many people are burning and failing. Startups, many of them die. All the time.
Healy: That’s true. Yeah.
Jake: You are very aware of it, while you’re building a startup, that, “Any day, this thing can die.” That is very different.
Healy: Well, that keeps you awake a little bit there. At the moment, you’re clearly doing great. You announced some phenomenal revenue growth numbers in your press release for the fundraise. You just raised a great Series A, in a really hard environment to raise a Series A. So, what kind of advice do you have for founders who are trying to raise particularly Series A right now? You did it successfully, what should they be thinking about?
Jake: Everyone’s different. Companies are different. So as anyone giving you startup advice should say, take it with a grain of salt and put your own context in mind. What was useful for us is we weren’t thinking about fundraising very much at all throughout the life of this business. We were very focused on, “Can we actually solve a problem?” We didn’t see a lot of software find success in the space that we’re in now. We can’t say, “Hey, Salesforce did it. We can build a CRM in this space.” There weren’t a ton of obvious parallels. So, we were really concerned with, “Hey, can we actually make a business that’s a real business here? Funding, yeah, things work out, we’ll get funding. That’s not the hard thing.” So, solving for creating a real business, and then the investment comes is what’s really our philosophy. That’s why we had a pretty slow and hard first two years of the business. But now, things are going great. Because in a market where VC, it’s really hard to fundraise, because investors are looking for a real business, hey, that’s what we were building this whole time.
Healy: Well, I mean, yeah, you had a three-year overnight success. You’ve been working pretty hard at it for a while, but it’s coming together.
Jake: Exactly. Well put.
Healy: When you actually started to do the fundraising process, was there anything that you learned during that process that was unexpected?
Jake: One thing is, which I should have known, your pitch is never good enough. Your pitch can always get better. Put it in video game terms maybe, the skill ceiling is so high. You can keep practicing your pitch. You can keep getting better at it and it will keep making a difference. I’ve been practicing this pitch for, now, over three years, pitch competitions, several rounds of difficult … trying to fundraise and turning it into a little pre-seed, until we figured out how to properly describe what we’re doing. And we could still get better at it. The thing is it is important to keep getting better at the pitch. Not just because it’s for fundraising, but the pitch, for investors, isn’t too dissimilar from what you’d be telling potential employees to sell them on the vision, to hire them, what you should be talking to customers about, to upsell them your product, because customers, when they feel like they’re a part of the vision, way more excited to be affiliated with your company. You should also be using that pitch for, internally, the company, to drive culture and keep everyone aligned. So, the pitch and how to position what you’re doing in the minds of whoever you’re talking to can always get better.
Healy: Yeah, that’s great advice. I’m pretty passionate about pitch decks. I help a lot of our clients think through their pitch decks. Do you have a particular slide that you found really resonated really well when you were pitching it? Or different question, what’s your favorite slide that you made in your pitch?
Jake: My favorite slides are the ones where it’s just one sentence in the middle because they’re easy to make. I come from consulting, but I never liked making slides. I don’t think I was ever very good at it either. Just simpler, the better.
Healy: That’s awesome. All right, well, let’s switch up here a little bit. You’re producing a tool that’s using AI to power sales. You’ve probably got some pretty strong opinions on how AI is going to impact selling, how AI is going to impact startups, where do you see AI going in terms of developing tools that help startup founders?
Jake: Well, one thing I’ll say first is how does it impact sales? Because startup founders are salespeople. So, I’ll first talk about it from that lens. As AI comes in and makes more and more things easy, make it really easy to send people [inaudible 00:12:51], really easy to send a personalized sales video, the most human things that remain, in my mind, are the ability to get someone’s attention and the ability to build trust. Those are two things that people are uniquely good at, and I think that’s something that people are going to continue leaning into. Your role is to build trust. Get someone’s attention, build trust. And then everything else is going to get increasingly automated. That’s piece number one. Piece number two, how does this impact startups more broadly? If I pontificate on this for a second, AI is going to make a lot of people question if they’re building a feature or a product. I think that’s particularly difficult now. When there are tons of what seem to be very real businesses, where you’re just kind of doing a layer on top of LLMs but you’re specializing it for a certain vertical and adding in some workflow stuff, maybe that’s a great business to be had or maybe that further turns into just a feature of a more foundational product. I think that’s going to be something that a lot of people are wrestling with, both in front of investors, but also, internally as they’re still working a full-time job and thinking about what startup they might be in. Or they just made the leap. They’re doing a startup and pivoting, and every exciting idea that comes up, they’re questioning, “Is this just a feature of what should be some other product?” That, I think, is going to be tough for a lot of folks.
Healy: Yeah, I think that’ll be pretty hard. Going back to the first topic there, I agree, it’s really hard to automate trust. Trust is a people thing. Particularly if you’re selling a very expensive enterprise thing, it’s really beneficial to sit in the room with the other people, learn about them and talk with them. Maybe eat some dinner or have a drink or something and really get to know them. It is very hard to automate trust. We’re still going to have field sales. It’s not going anywhere-
Jake: Field sales are here to stay.
Healy: I feel like that’s a pretty foundational market. Yeah. In terms of founders who may not have a sales background, who may come up in a product role or engineering role, and now this is their first startup, and they actually have to sell, what type of advice do you have for those founders as they’re starting to actually approach the market and try to get people to give them money for their product?
Jake: If you are a startup founder, you are now officially a salesperson. If you were the technical founder, you’re still also a salesperson. So, I think identifying as a salesperson. Not thinking of it as, “I’m not the salesperson but I’m doing my best.” You can’t do that. You have to realize you are a salesperson, and you need to be as deliberate with improving that skill as the skills that you currently identify with. If you’re an engineer, the same energy that you’re putting into learning that new library, how about you read You Can’t Teach a Kid to Ride a Bike at a Seminar? That’s one of my favorite sales books. Read the books. Know that this is a skill that you must develop to be successful. Must with asterisks, but 99% of founders must develop this skill. It’s super high leverage. Of all the things that you could be spending your time on, getting better at sales is super, super high leverage. Your product’s probably not going to be excellent right out of the gate. So being able to at least sell someone onto a pilot, or the idea of trying out your product, versus having to try and make some perfect product out of the gate and then get folks. So yeah, identifying as a salesperson is something that … Very few people in tech, for example, identify as salespeople. I think that’s a mind shift change that as a founder you should make very early on.
Healy: That’s awesome. You mentioned a sales book you liked. There’s a couple that I really like, like Challenger Sale and Question-Based Selling I think are phenomenal sales books. I’ve had a lot of executives here at Kruze read those books. What was the book that you recommended?
Jake: It’s You Can’t Teach a Kid to Ride a Bike at a Seminar. It goes over the Sandler selling method, which I like a lot.
Healy: Awesome. I’ll have to check that one out. Any other good sales books? I mean, obviously you’ve learned how to sell. A lot of it is probably self-motivated. Hopefully you’ve had some good sales training because that’s the business you’re building here. I’m going to ask a lot of questions about sales training in a second, but any other good sales books you like?
Jake: I’d recommend just reading one and reading it 10 times.
Healy: Okay.
Jake: Keeping the podcast in and just keep playing through it. At least that’s how I digest the books that I’m really trying to learn from, the ones that I treat like a textbook. I like to listen to it over and over again, and let that one method sink in. Because again, super high skill ceiling. Every listen, you’ll probably pull-out new things, and you’ll have new chances to implement them. If you’re actively reading this while you’re doing selling activities, trying to find pilot customers, et cetera, one day, a different chapter of the book will become useful. Reread that chapter at the end of the day. Refresh yourself, “Hey, did I implement this the way that I should have?” Probably not. And then reflect on that.
Healy: Yeah. I actually agree with that as well. The Challenger Sale is one of the few business books that I’ve read multiple times. In general, I kind of read them once and I’m like, “Okay, I think I got it,” but that’s one that I refer back to multiple times. It was that influential in my thinking process. What other ways do you think founders can help themselves get better? You’ve mentioned a few things, like realizing that you’re in sales. You mentioned a book that you like. What other stuff can a founder do to become a better salesperson?
Jake: Yeah. Mind shift change, identifying as a salesperson right out the gate, that’s the most important. Another one that’s useful, it’s sort of like how we think about our product and the value it adds, record yourself and get feedback. Even if it’s just yourself. There’re tons of tools out there that you can use basically for free. Otter.ai is a great one that you can plug in. It’s got a super nice consumer feel to it. Siro isn’t yet a great tool for inside sales or video sales. But have a tool, record your meetings. Even your pitches. I’ve recorded almost all of my VC pitches. And then listen to it yourself and get feedback. What I think is the gold standard for how to get better at sales is you prep for a sales meeting, you have the call, it’s recorded, right afterwards, listen through it and try and find two or three key moments that could have done better. Get feedback from someone, which maybe it’s your co-founder. Ideally, it’s someone who is very good at sales. Maybe it’s a sales coach. They can role model for you what excellent sounds like, and then role play it back. So, you did it yourself, you hear what you did, then you hear an example of what excellent sounds like, or feedback, and then try it again. Role play it. Say it out loud, too. Not just think it through your head, but say it out loud. What I was doing when I was iterating my pitch, I would have, “Just did this pitch with some VC, got this question that I wasn’t prepared for, didn’t answer it well, no follow-up email after.” I would listen to the pitch, tag my co-founder in Siro. Or if you’re using Otter or something, you can comment on that point of the conversation, get their feedback. Joe would weigh in with his feedback, and then I’d audio message back to him a role play. That, I think, is the gold standard for improving sales, but it takes work. This comes back again to, “Sales is your job. That is the main hat for a lot of founders. One of the most important hats.” So, identifying as a salesperson so that you’re willing to put in the time to prepare for the sales meetings, put in the time to review your sales calls, put in the time to reflect on them and try and get better, that’s what’s required. It’s mostly time. So, identifying as a salesperson because that’s what you are now, as a founder.
Healy: That’s awesome. That’s amazing. There reaches a point where a founder has to start to hire sales folks. When do you think the right time is for a founder to begin to hire new salespeople beyond them?
Jake: Yeah, my perspective is when your product is no longer crappy, because I think only the founder can sell the crap product. Once you get signals that’s like, “Oh, this is actually getting kind of easy,” or “Hey, the close rate is really high suddenly,” then you can bring someone in to start doing it for you. Even the sales gurus, they won’t sell your product the way that you can. Also, you don’t want to be that removed from the sales cycle. You want to know the kind of feedback or why something’s not selling. So as soon as sales starts getting easier, which I’m intentionally leaving vague because it’s not a great answer, at least I don’t have a great answer of where the product market fit … the early product market fit is, once it starts getting easier, then you can start hiring folks. Then you can bring in sales experts. Tons of people have built go-to-market sales teams. There’re tons of … or many folks who are excellent at building sales organizations. You don’t have to do it from scratch yourself. Once this product can sell, it’s not crappy, then you can bring in some folks who can help you build the organization.
Healy: Managing a sales team is different than managing an engineering team. It’s a different animal entirely. I have found that I’ve had to randomly coach founders on how they need to think about managing their sales team. Particularly for developers who just sort of expect a certain type of mentality, that it’s not the same as sales. Both are perfectly good mentalities. Although, the two don’t really cross. For the non-sales founders, do you want to talk a little bit about best practices in managing and growing a sales team, having been a successful salesperson and now running a company that’s grown like crazy?
Jake: Frankly, I think we’re a little too early for me to give an answer that I want other people to hear because it could be totally wrong. We’re still [inaudible 00:23:12].
Healy: First of all, I disagree, given where you’re coming from. Given your growth numbers, you guys are not too early to give this advice. You should feel good about your traction. It’s pretty impressive.
Jake: Maybe the main point is, like the advice that you’ll hear everywhere, just hire great people. Don’t compromise because you just need bodies. You just need someone to read this script. It’s like hire someone who is going to be … I’ll list a few qualities, matches your culture, so they’re ready to hustle with the rest of the team. Identifies themselves as someone who’s product-minded. They’re not just a salesperson. Because if you’re early on, your product’s still changing a lot. They also have to be product-minded. They’re going to be interfacing with engineering and product quite a bit. We’ll say product-minded is technical communication, having some of those skills. And then three, this quality of being a self-starter, I think is critical. Entrepreneurial, autonomous, self-starter, there are a few different ways people describe it. Scrappiness, grit. I think what we got right is we luckily hired some excellent folks on our team. That sort of thing we can attribute our success to so far.
Healy: Yeah, it’s the hiring. Identifying the right people is amazing. Another thing I would imagine you’re pretty competent at is sales training. Siro is a sales training app. You want to talk a little bit about how the app helps train salespeople?
Jake: Yeah. The workflow I was describing earlier where you record, review yourself, hear an expert example, and then role play, that’s the workflow that we encourage in our app. In our mind, that’s the best way to do sales training. Yes, reviewing the funnel numbers is good and important. Making sure you’re hitting adequate top-of-funnel, and if you’re too low on bottom-of-funnel, you have to change your behavior. Getting better at the actual conversation piece, which is what we’re focused on. When you’re in the black box or in the arena or the actual conversation, how do you get good at that part of the job? It’s reviewing the game film. Record your conversation, listen to it later, get feedback, or if you can, listen to an example of someone doing that thing really well, and then try again.
Healy: Yeah. That’s pretty similar to when I was running sales teams. At the end of the day, everybody would get together. This is back when people were in offices. We’d get together and we’d pick a sales call. We’d play it through, and then we’d ask other people for feedback or advice. We’d play back particular sections and role play around them. Just to try to get it so that people could hear a call that maybe went well or went poorly and understand how they could do it better or how they might react, or work on particular questions that they could ask to keep the conversation moving forward. On the one hand, it was really fulfilling and really fun. On the other hand, by your second year of doing it, it sort of gets to be repetitive as well. You keep emphasizing the same points because being good at sales comes down to a handful of things you have to do really well. I think this sounds like a tremendous app to try to help salespeople improve. Now, is the app for individual salespeople who want to get better, or is it for a corporation that wants to implement this for everybody on their team? Who’s it for?
Jake: Siro is for businesses. The business buys Siro. They might have multiple regions, multiple offices in those regions, and sales reps in each of the offices. The sales reps use Siro and get value in it themselves. Frankly, the user that we build for. Managers then can support their sales teams. And VPs get aggregated analytics to make more strategic decisions. Something that you brought up, though, that I think is really important and worth emphasizing is the more social element of it. So yeah, I keep saying this record, review, hear a great example and try again. But what’s really important and what you can do as a sales leader is loop everyone in. Give visibility. If you’re giving feedback to one person, everyone on the team should hear it. Why? Well, one, feedback is a gift. For people to see that you’re investing your time giving feedback as a sales leader is motivating. Why let only one person see that when you could give everyone the gift of being able to see the feedback, you’re giving this one person. As long as it’s not too personal. The second element of it is it can’t all be critical. There’s got to be a lot of support. What’s the rule? It’s like three compliments for every … or three positive pieces of feedback for every one negative piece of feedback. The same thing holds. Because the biggest challenge that I guess any founder who’s putting on the sales hat for the first time is going to have been they’re not going to want to record themselves. Or brand-new sales reps often are just afraid of recording themselves because they’re embarrassed. They don’t want their peers, who they’re friends with, buddy buddies with, hear them freeze up in a sales conversation. If you’re just calling that out and berating people and making them, feel bad when you’re giving them feedback as a sales leader, they’re not going to want to record themselves as much. Now, this is when we get into these negative associations with this job. It’s got to be … it should be more positive than negative. So, people are encouraged to continue this behavior, and it does feel more like a gift. It’s like, “Oh, this is great. If I just record myself, I get this free personal trainer. I usually have to pay for a personal trainer but this person’s actually spending their time to help me get better at my job. That’s great.” That’s how it should feel.
Healy: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. When I was doing it, we would encourage the sales folks to bring ones that they wanted to go over. There were certain folks who would always bring a bad call. Like, “Well, I want you to bring a good call as well. We’re not just going to listen to you striking out, because I just heard you do 10 calls, and this is the one where you struck out. The other ones were pretty bang up, so let’s hear one of your good ones as well because it’s not fair to just have you only get beat down.” The response was, “Well, I want to get better.” But you can even get better on the great calls, and maybe the person sitting next to you could get better because they just heard a great call that you did. I love the social aspect. I think sales is a social … it’s a social thing. Teams of salespeople do better when they’re motivating each other and learning from each other. It’s a really powerful feature that you’ve created. That’s awesome. What’s next for you guys? You’ve raised this round, you’re growing really well, what does the future hold? Where are you going next?
Jake: Yeah, there’s a very exciting roadmap. Particularly with how much the tech world has changed, or how much AI has advanced in the last year. What was previously our ten-year roadmap is now our roadmap for next year.
Healy: Amazing.
Jake: The roadmap is really exciting, but what we’re focused on right now is hiring and building the … doubling down on our team. As I mentioned before, hiring sales folks. I’m hiring a chief of staff right now, more engineers, another designer, some marketing folks, some CSMs. So, we’re sort of hiring all around, all across the team. It’s a really exciting time. As several mentors of mine have said, “Startups are very hard. So, when you get the ups, you close the round, you close that customer, celebrate it.” Siro is very happy right now. We’re celebrating our wins. Because it’s going to be a hard journey ahead of us, like there is for every company.
Healy: Well, you’re on an amazing trajectory. Clearly, the product is resonating with the market. It’s really impressive. Jake, sounds like you’re hiring. Where can people get in touch with you if they want to learn more?
Jake: Yes, our website, siro.ai. Siro, it’s like Siri, but with an O. Siro.ai, we have our job board posted there on the We’re Hiring section. That’s got all of our postings. As well as a bit of information on our company, our culture. At a startup, when the team is small, as I said, things are hard. So, I encourage anyone who’s trying to get a job at a startup to make sure it fits your … you’d be a culture fit. When you’re joining larger companies, you can think a lot about the specific folks you’ll be working with, the team within the big company. But at Siro, you’d be working with everyone. Yeah, you’d be an engineer, but you would be working with everyone. So making sure that you meet the criteria that we’re filtering for on the website culturally is going to be important for you to be happy working here. Same with any other startup. Encourage anyone to really index strong for … index hard on the culture fit element.
Healy: Amazing. That is great advice. Well, Jake, thanks for your time. This was an amazing conversation. Congratulations again on the success. You guys are doing great. It’s amazing. It’s really fun to get to work with you.
Jake: Thank you very much, Healy. I appreciate it.

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