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Scott Orn

Scott Orn, CFA

Repeat founder Kelly Nyland of Whym on the intersection of eCommerce and text messages

Posted on: 01/22/2020

Kelly Nyland

Kelly Nyland

Founder & CEO - Whym

Kelly Nyland of Whym - Podcast Summary

Kelly Nyland, a multi-time startup founder, discusses how eCommerce has evolved, and where she thinks it is going in the age of text messaging. Her new company, Whym, is a female-focused brand that lets people purchase right from texts.

Kelly Nyland of Whym - Podcast Transcript

Scott: Welcome to Founders and Friends podcast with Scott Orn at Kruze Consulting. Before we get to an awesome podcast with Kelly Nyland of Whym, quick shout-out to our sponsor, Rippling. The new cool payroll service in town also helps with benefits and also has integrations into your IT infrastructure. Make it really easy. Kelly is looking at me. Her attention is perked here. Makes it easy to spin up new employees. Computers are already made and all setup and then all their web services are set up. It saves … How many hours do you think that would save someone?
Kelly: Well, I would say Rhenee-
Scott: That’s our co-founder.
Kelly: It would definitely save her several hours per person, I think.
Scott: It would save her three to four hours per person. It’s actually pretty crazy and that’s just on signing people up.
Kelly: Awesome.
Scott: Check out Rippling. They are really amazing. They do your payroll. They do your benefits. They let you work with independent brokers and they have the IT infrastructure all setup for you. It’s pretty cool. All right. Kelly, that was the first time a guest has ever jumped into an ad. That was pretty amazing.
Kelly: Thank you for letting me be a part of that.
Scott: Kelly, welcome-
Kelly: Thank you.
Scott: To the podcast. Kelly Nyland of Whym. Do you want to give a quick little background on what Whym is and how you found it, and how you had the idea for it?
Kelly: Sure. I’ll be happy to do that. The company now known as Whym started as a company called Petalfox about two years ago. Prior to that, Petalfox was actually my seventh company, my first time founding a venture-backed company, but I got my start really early on in entrepreneurship. I helped my dad start a printing company out of Detroit, Michigan when I was about 19 years old, so still in college. Then from there, I worked through many different types of emerging technology companies, launching 120 products in 40 markets.
Scott: Wow.
Kelly: A lot of my career I spent going and setting up distribution and import, and channel marketing, and PR in all the countries that Apple actually sells in because I was a partner with Apple. I was a third-party manufacturer for a really long time. I sold them 40,000 points of sales, so I have an incredible-
Scott: Wow.
Kelly: Retail background, in addition to product and then I’ve held executive roles in marketing and communications. I’ve led a global sales organization and then eventually, worked my way back in the customer journey to product ideation and product life cycle. After I did all that, that all culminated with launching the Snapchat camera glasses, Spectacles.
Scott: That was you?
Kelly: That was me.
Scott: Oh my God. That was huge and a buzz too.
Kelly: Thank you. Our go-to market strategy and that team won six Cannes Lions awards.
Scott: Wow.
Kelly: That’s actually where I met Rhenee, my co-founder and so she and I worked together for several years at the company, a bit pre-IPO and a bit post-IPO. Got to see really, really, really interesting experience, I would say, with experiencing everything around Snapchat.
Scott: Ups and downs.
Kelly: Ups and downs.
Scott: Ups. They’re back on their way up.
Kelly: That’s great. Yes, absolutely. We looked at each other and we had been thinking about what was happening in this social commerce space. It was a really interesting opportunity for us to launch the consumer product inside of an advertising company. A lot of people don’t recognize it that way, but we set up the company’s consumer marketing arm and we were the first brand and consumer marketing experience for the company and experienced firsthand some of the challenges of selling through social commerce, and at the same time, Instagram was getting started. We were looking at that. We were looking at the subscription economy and the fact that a lot of companies were wanting to sell this very sexy subscription for everything, but that’s just not how consumers buy, so we thought, okay, maybe there’s a more interesting way to actually create convenience around repurchasing and so that’s really the area. We were obsessed with that idea. How do we pair discovery on social with an impulse buy platform and then how do we make it really easy to rebuy something? For me, I was a working executive mom of a seven or eight-year-old. My son was seven or eight at the time. I thought, why is this so hard? Why is making these types of purchases, either around happy spending or self-care or even something as simple as toilet paper, why do all these companies have data, but yet seems so agnostic about my repurchase behavior? I thought, okay, well, I know technology is available to actually create personalization around that behavior. We started super, super, super small with a very concentrated and focused use case, which was, could we sell one curated flower arrangement to women as a self-care purchase for them, for themselves, over a text message every week? That was our beta.
Scott: It worked because actually, that’s how I know you.
Kelly: That’s right.
Scott: I was a man buying it for my wife.
Kelly: That’s right.
Scott: The text message interface, it’s pretty amazing. That’s the low friction part of this, right?
Kelly: Totally. Very low friction, extremely low friction and we set it up in a way that a lot of other messaging companies out there haven’t really set up commerce and so the real magic is in their repurchase behavior. Actually, how it works is instead of getting some type of product link from a website in your text message and then checking out over a product link every time, during your first time experience with Whym, you not only set up your account, but we verify your phone number and we use that as your unique identifier, so you then don’t need a password, which for me, passwords are my nemesis. I keep a spreadsheet. I tried all of the different software to help me log into things. I’m a disaster. I can’t log into anything and so having something that eliminated the password, eliminated the credit card pin, having to go find my purse or wallet again, while I’m on the couch or doing something and then-
Scott: I’m visualizing my wife, Vanessa, buying stuff on the couch and that’s exactly her. She can’t log in and it’s horrible, and then I’m hearing about it.
Kelly: Totally. I think-
Scott: Oh, on Bloomingdale’s, on Black Friday I tried to buy a sweater.
Kelly: Oh.
Scott: I had to reset my password four times.
Kelly: Oh my God.
Scott: It just never worked.
Kelly: I know. Totally. There’s all this friction. Abandoned cart rates are actually upwards, 70 to 80% now.
Scott: It’s crazy.
Kelly: It’s nuts.
Scott: It was such a good deal. I went home and did it on my desktop, but Oh my God, it was insane. You’ve solved that?
Kelly: We’ve solved it. I mean our abandoned cart rate is 45% on the platform, which is amazing because it’s so easy to just … A lot of our customers love the fact that they can just go back into something. A lot of times if you’re scrolling through Instagram and you swipe up on a product and then you’re looking around, their back button actually takes you all the way back to the Instagram profile, so you lose-
Scott: Oh God.
Kelly: Everything.
Scott: Oh my God.
Kelly: There’s that behavior. People are thinking, oh, this is really interesting. I’ll add it to my cart. Then they just forget and they don’t want to set up another account with another password, so that was super important. We’ve built this wallet that can then be accessed by our human customer service specialists and we use your phone number as your unique ID. That was all really important and that was our first piece of technology that we built because it didn’t exist when we were looking to launch this type of text commerce experience, and that was in February.
Scott: That’s really amazing. I’ve bought a couple of times. I’ve also tried to buy coffee and it was just an inside joke between us because I’m not very good at understanding how coffee works and running your own coffee, but I’ve figured that out now. A big part of it is frictionless.
Kelly: It is.
Scott: I actually have a different thesis. I’m not the founder of the company, so who cares what I-
Kelly: Well, there’s many reasons.
Scott: Yeah, but I think it’s an amazing surprise to get in your text message and it spices up your day. Does that make sense?
Kelly: Yeah.
Scott: Do you hear that from people?
Kelly: All the time. We have a really loyal customer base. Over 60% of our customers repurchase on a regular basis because they just love that a text message is something that shows up and it’s not among the noise of everything else. It’s not in your feed. It’s not in your email. The one thing that our customers really love is that while we curate one flower arrangement on the Petalfox product side every week, we put it inside of a mood board that actually features seasonal trends in fashion.
Scott: Oh, wow.
Kelly: Decor, anything. It almost feels a little bit like a curated Pinterest board. Our customers will just tell us, “I just love getting this content from you every week.” We also do a motivational wallpaper that you can put on your phone.
Scott: Oh my gosh.
Kelly: If you send in an emoji, you can get a quote every week, which is pretty amazing too. There’s a lot of opportunity for content and delighting your customers without just selling stuff to them all the time, but also, the content is super important.
Scott: Whoever is writing the copy does a really good job.
Kelly: Yes.
Scott: It’s really funny. It catches your eye and there’s emojis in it.
Kelly: That’s right.
Scott: I’m always like, “Oh my God” because I get all these business text messages all day and it’s a nice surprise to be like, “Oh, this isn’t someone asking me for something. This is actually for me.” Coffee is usually pretty funny. For me, I like it. I’m like, “Oh yeah” and I click on it and check out what’s going on. I didn’t realize there was a Pinterest board behind that. I probably just never put that together.
Kelly: Well, the image that comes through should be that for you. You’ll have to check-
Scott: I’ll have to check.
Kelly: You’ll have to check your phone.
Scott: I am also not a Pinterest user. My wife uses Pinterest all the time, so I know what Pinterest is.
Kelly: It’s actually just a small mood board. It’s only five or six images and we do credit all of the content creators that we’ve maybe pulled the inspiration from. Sometimes it’s us. It’s our content, but other times we’ll just credit other content creators. Our customers love, they just love getting this beautiful mood board that’s seasonal, that has flowers in it. It’s like a little, tiny moment of romance in a way.
Scott: It’s cool. It is fun, yeah. What do people say? Have you done a study?
Kelly: Oh yeah.
Scott: Half the people are like, “No. It’s about the frictionless of the thing” and then half are like, “No, no, no. I like the creativity of the platform and the way the content is featured?”
Kelly: I would say on the experience side, it’s about the ease and convenience and what’s interesting is that there’s not really a formula. We do have some conversational logic that will help create a faster response for you, but there are humans there to answer any questions or basically to interact with you. I would say that the ease and convenience, but that is perpetuated by the fact that if you have a question that falls outside of conversational logic, that you’re really talking to a human.
Scott: Oh, so it flips over to a real person?
Kelly: Yeah. They’re just going to answer you.
Scott: Oh, wow.
Kelly: Have a human moment with you. We have our customers sharing all kinds of stuff. They’ll share everything from good days to bad days, with us and we’ll hear-
Scott: Wow. That’s really cool.
Kelly: It’s really interesting, as a brand, to experience. We’ve had some customers come out to us. We’ve actually had customers tell us about, either deaths or births or something that they’re celebrating. We get to really have all of these human moments over text message, which is just why we believe so much in conversational commerce. We believe that this is the human element of commerce and brands coming back to life in a totally different way.
Scott: That’s amazing. It’s funny. My mom owned a retail store for 25 years, called Elegant Clutter, in the East Bay. It was like a high-end pottery barn. A lot of people would go or women would go shopping together as their social thing on that day. It sounds like you’ve figured out a human way of replacing that over technology.
Kelly: Totally.
Scott: Made it a little more efficient
Kelly: We’re excited to bring that to an entire retail ecosystem. With some of the newer technology and the new brand with Whym that we’ve launched, we’re actually able to take the technology of shopping over text and now you can talk over text within just your text message feed or you can browse and build a virtual cart from an e-commerce experience from a look book. We’ve published a seasonal look book of products, so it’s like-
Scott: I got that in the mail. Is that the-
Kelly: That’s right.
Scott: It’s beautiful, actually.
Kelly: Thank you. It’s somewhere between Sky Mall and a really high-end look book from a fashion company.
Scott: I got a catalog, but it was very cool pictures and cool art, and a great color scheme because of that.
Kelly: It’s our little Zen and you can shop the entire thing via text, so you can be on your couch. You actually never have to go online and search for different products. You can just send in a hashtag, learn about the products if you want or talk to somebody, talk to one of our personal shoppers to say, “Hey. I’d love to spend $35 or $70 or whatever it is and I really love this product. What else can I pair with that?” Then the final step is we’ll be premiering our first pop-up store. It’s an inventory less pop-up store and you can shop the entire thing via text. You can still have the human interaction-
Scott: Super smart.
Kelly: That you want, but you don’t have to worry about a hovering customer associate and it features all of our small brands. Whym now has over 200 products from 50 companies, 80% of which have less than 30,000 followers on Instagram.
Scott: Oh, wow.
Kelly: 50% of those brands are actually founded by women. The top search parameters that our customers are using, they’re actually shopping by this one feature we have in our website called shop by brand value and so you can shop by things not found on Amazon.
Scott: Oh, I saw that. I thought that was really clever. I saw it in the catalog.
Kelly: Eco-friendly, minority-owned, female-founded and it’s been really interesting because we had this instinct around the fact that people want to shop from small brands. They’re following them on Instagram, but then you have all this weird friction of shopping within Instagram and not wanting to set up passwords and stuff. Whym is really looking to that umbrella for this small brand shopping opportunity.
Scott: I’m going to sound really old saying that, but millennials shop based on values, right?
Kelly: Totally. 100%. It’s the top thing that we give people, the option to shop by category or price and then they can shop by brand value and so we are working really hard to do a much better job of telling the story. Not only our story, but telling the story of the brands that are now selling as well. We have a little founder feature on every product page. You can read about the founders. You can read about their values and I think that’s really resonating with our customers.
Scott: It’s the amazing fusion of content and shopping. That’s really cool. Maybe just projecting forward, do you see yourself going to carry 10,000 products or is Whym a curated thing? How does the business grow and satisfy more customers too, at the same time?
Kelly: That’s a great question. I am old enough to remember the really early stages of e-commerce. As I dig back through some professional nostalgia, it’s usually what I think about. When I first launched an e-commerce store for a company called Parrot, which is an electronics company based in Paris, France, I was like, “Hey, you guys. We really need to get into this e-commerce thing, selling directly to consumers.” The first year I set that up, I was like, “Okay, if we can just do 2% of our annual sales directly to the consumer, we’ll understand a lot more about our consumer.” Then the retailers that we were selling through, which at the time was Best Buy, will have so much more data and we’ll understand more about our customers. As a marketer, that was super attractive to me and from a sales perspective, I just thought we would understand more. Text commerce is a channel.
Scott: It’s crazy, I think back, that brands didn’t have that kind of information.
Kelly: I mean it’s amazing, but I remember struggling on a regular, on a weekly basis, to get sell-through reports from.
Scott: Walmart used to charge a ton of money for it.
Kelly: 100%.
Scott: That was a huge revenue stream.
Kelly: You had to sign up for the back ends like ERP, essentially an ERP system and then spend all this money just to get how many products sold through, which as a sale and as a marketing team, which I run several now, without that data, you really didn’t know what was happening from a geography perspective. I mean now all of that has changed. What’s fascinating to me is that I think about that model and I think text commerce is just a new channel and it’s the lead into something much bigger, so the big guys like Amazon, Facebook, Google are all investing in voice. Essentially, how do we buy things with our voice? We as a company believe that text commerce is a foray into a broader narrative around conversational commerce and so our mission is to really be the best, most personal way to buy something through a conversation, and so that’s how we think about it. Then which products we choose to assort have to do with our core demographic, which is more of a career-focused female, although 20% of our demo is men. Then in addition to that, it’s the repurchase magic that we’re focused on. A lot of our products have some type of regular cadence to them. That you would want to order, either on a weekly basis or a quarterly basis.
Scott: The flowers were every week for four weeks or something like that.
Kelly: That’s right. We have everything from an annual planner to some type of fix, a coffee or sweets or tea, and then a lot of things in the middle in terms of how often you would order them or buy them. Most of it is based on how can we create convenience for you around your work life and the things that you need to replenish while you’re on the go, traveling, things that you just regularly use at your desk?
Scott: Would you ever do services? This is crazy, but I was like, “What about a babysitter?” Vanessa and I, we’re friends with Lynn Perkins from UrbanSitter. Has been on this podcast and we’re good friends. When you have our attention, that’s the … I think the beauty of what you’re doing is you’re breaking through and getting people’s attention and it’s really easy to give you our attention. There must be a ton of stuff that we’d want to buy or just place a purchase through Whym.
Kelly: 100%, yep. There’s a service out there called Jetblack, which Walmart owns and they’re more of … I don’t know if they would describe it this way, but they’re a high-end concierge and they’ll buy anything for you, either on the platform. Oh, sorry. As a part of what Walmart offers or actually something that they don’t offer. For a while now, we have had the opportunity and are looking toward the future to say, “With our power users, what could we beta for them that would essentially …? Because we have the ability to offer them anything over text message.” That could look like some type of regular monthly membership and then a transaction fee or a convenience fee, based on what you might need, whether it’s a service or a product. I mean we’re not going to buy you a car probably, but I think other than that-
Scott: Well, I just thought of a babysitter because you’re talking about self-care and working people, and working moms, and I was like, “A babysitter is actually an amazing luxury.” When you pull the trigger on that, you feel really good about yourself and you know you’re going to get a break. You feel good multiple times through-
Kelly: Girls night out.
Scott: Yeah, exactly. Or just not even leaving, going anywhere.
Kelly: Totally.
Scott: Not having to watch the kid.
Kelly: I mean really, the possibilities are endless. What we’re focused on right now in this stage is really establishing that trust as a curator, as a recommended source. A lot of our customers refer to us. It feels like a trusted friend and-
Scott: That’s a huge compliment though. That’s amazing.
Kelly: It is a huge compliment. It’s really, really important to us, that trust that you have to establish through this very new medium because text messages, it’s really a sacred space. It’s reserved for friends and family, and group texting, but I think more and more, we’re going to shift away from social media, into more of some of these personalized mediums. To be a brand that’s super early in that stage, create an entire infrastructure to make that happen and understand better who our customers are, we’re pretty excited about it.
Scott: That’s really amazing. You’re totally right. It is very intimate and that’s why I almost think … I get that text message and I’m like, “Oh” because you’re expecting a message from a friend or someone who wants something from you at work, who got your cell phone number somehow, but I was like, “Oh, it’s a very happy moment. Oh, this is really cool.” I never thought about how the copy is designed to be very friendly and conversational. Now that I’ve talked to you about it, it makes total sense.
Kelly: We’re super passionate to help. One of the things that I want to do in 2020 is to help brands think about how to actually market themselves through SMS because I think a lot of people are looking for other avenues, how to get in front of their customers in a meaningful way that isn’t controlled by an algorithm because we were losing control over … Instagram convinced us to build up this organic following and now we can only reach six to 8% of those people.
Scott: Oh, really?
Kelly: It’s that low.
Scott: No way. Our Instagram posts are only going out to six-
Kelly: That’s right.
Scott: No. I didn’t know that. Oh my God.
Kelly: Then the trick is you have to actually pay to get in front of all those people again over and over and over, and it takes the average of 13 interactions between a brand and customer for them to buy something.
Scott: Oh yeah. This is the brand. That’s what they did with Facebook, five years ago.
Kelly: 100%.
Scott: I was actually talking about this with a friend of mine, how Google is putting so many more paid ads in the search results. Actually, I feel like it hit the tipping point where you don’t trust the search results anymore. It’s weird.
Kelly: I mean it’s a very interesting landscape right now. Another thing that we’re trying to work through is basically, we are following and we have a lot of following within the social sphere, but if you look at where a lot of the purchases are happening, that’s not where they’re happening and they’re not happening with a lot of these small brands. How can we provide the right channels to take that engagement and turn it into conversion for a lot of these amazing brands and products on Instagram? Which is really how we’ve curated our product. We’ve gone out and found incredible products and we’ve said, “We want to get behind these products and brands.” We’re excited about that. We’re happy when we get the products in our office and we’re using them.
Scott: Well, I noticed you said a lot of them are some 30,000 followers on Instagram or something like that, so you are magnifying them and giving people the attention to that.
Kelly: Yeah. I mean they’re actually brands just like us. I mean we’ve experienced what it’s like to build a brand in the last two years, which is an environment with changing algorithms, heightened costs of digital advertising. We’re experimenting with all types of channels and then now we have this entire ecosystem of text commerce, which can come to life through both online and offline channels. What’s really special about … Other than Amazon, I haven’t read about a virtual cart, which is what we’ve built. It’s this idea of you, Scott can go into one of our stores. You can add something to your virtual cart. Then you can go online and you can add more things to your cart, and then you can go and SMS.
Scott: Oh.
Kelly: You can actually add more things to your cart and when you log in, your phone number ties all of those carts together and the only other place that we’ve seen that right now is through Amazon.
Scott: That’s amazing.
Kelly: What they’re doing with their physical store is where you can essentially walk out.
Scott: I love that. I actually shop there all the time. You built something really cool. That’s really amazing.
Kelly: Thank you.
Scott: We’re running low on time here, but I want to do a new little thing which is, what’s one tip, it can be anything, it can be personal, it can be professional, as a startup founder, you have for other startup founders?
Kelly: Oh goodness.
Scott: One, and you can even think about it for a second because I also want to make … While you think about it. You’ve talked a lot about the women demographic, but actually, men are super –
Kelly: Yes.
Scott: I like your service because it’s super easy for me to use and sometimes men are super functional. You click in. You do it. Actually, if you’re a guy and you’re buying gifts for your girlfriend or wife or whatever, it’s actually an awesome service to subscribe to because you do the work a little bit for us.
Kelly: We do.
Scott: You just click it and then I see all the stuff that I think Vanessa would like, and then I know to buy it. If you’re a guy out there, I know the statistics are only 20% of men are shopping on Whym, but it will make your life a little easier, gentlemen. Just check it out. It’ll make your life easier.
Kelly: Thank you, Scott. I appreciate you saying that. With a lot of the men that we have conversations with, it’s just a different type of conversation, is what we’ve noticed. It’s actually very like, “One, two, three. I want to do this. I want to be done” and there’s no talking. There’s no sending pictures of your company to us.
Scott: Or what will my wife like?
Kelly: Yeah, exactly.
Scott: One of those.
Kelly: Recommendations. I think that’s also a big thing. We’ve had men tell us, “Hey, can I give you five dates this year that I want you to text me, a week before?”
Scott: That’s super smart.
Kelly: Yes.
Scott: That’s super smart. Oh my God.
Kelly: We will have that feature soon, but that’s a big deal.
Scott: Oh my God. That’s genius.
Kelly: Great. Well, you’re on the list.
Scott: Wow. That’s really good. What’s your one tip for other startup founders?
Kelly: One tip for other startup founders.
Scott: For you, because you have a really cool co-founder, it could be, find a good co-founder.
Kelly: Oh my gosh. 100% would be, find a good co-founder, but that’s really hard. I would say in looking for a co-founder, find somebody that’s just good at all the things you’re not very good at.
Scott: That’s really good.
Kelly: I think having built many, many teams, that’s also been another strategy of mine, is to bring together a very avant-garde group of people that you aligned culturally, but that come from very different backgrounds and perspectives because I think it makes for a really rich product and a rich experience, and a rich company. Rhenee is the opposite of me. She’s good at all of the things. I’m good at a few things and she’s an incredible operator. I found her to be much closer to a systems architect or an engineer than almost anything else and she’s never been labeled as that, but having worked around all types of engineers my entire life, that’s what she feels like to me.
Scott: What you ladies have put together is a lot of engineering and a lot of-
Kelly: A lot.
Scott: A lot of duct tape that’s been replaced by-
Kelly: That’s right.
Scott: Hammers and nails.
Kelly: That’s right.
Scott: That’s really cool.
Kelly: I think that would be my advice. I think just never underestimate the power of just doing a lot of manual things before you try to automate different business processes. It’s really worth the blood, sweat, and tears or however you want to it, the duct tape and spreadsheets, and humans. It’s worth doing all that because we all have to build technology. It’s table stakes to be a technology company at this point and to use interesting and innovative technology to build your company and differentiate you and so I would say that before you start putting ones and zeros together, just don’t be afraid or figure out how to run your business off of those manual processes and spreadsheets to really understand where you want to invest your development time.
Scott: That’s really good advice. You had two good ones.
Kelly: Good.
Scott: Good co-founder and then do things that don’t scale, Paul Graham.
Kelly: Yeah, exactly. I mean Rhenee wrote an entire blog post on one example of that, within our company and it continues to be how we operate, and it actually helps us move a lot faster because you can vet a lot of things.
Scott: You understand how everything works. I think I-
Kelly: Absolutely.
Scott: Feel the same way. Thank you so much for coming by.
Kelly: Thank you so much for having me, Scott.
Scott: Can you tell everyone where they can find Whym and how to subscribe?
Kelly: Yes, absolutely. The website is www.mywhim, W-H-Y-M, .co and you can find us on Instagram, and pretty much every other social handle at My Whym. You can also check out the floral brand, which sells fresh flowers, faux flowers, and a bunch of floral print in different floral-inspired products, and that’s Petalfox, P-E-T-A-L-F-O-X, one word.
Scott: Awesome. Thank you so much for coming by.
Kelly: Thank you.
Scott: I’m a purchaser, I’m a customer. Make your life easy. Use it and it’ll make your text messages a lot more fun to read.
Kelly: Thank you so much, Scott.
Scott: Awesome. Thanks, Kelly. Take care. Bye.
Kelly: Bye.
Singer: When your troubles are mounting in tax or accounting, you go to Kruze Founders and Friends. It’s Kruze Consulting Founders and Friends with your host, Scotty Orn.

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