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With Scott Orn

A Startup Podcast by Kruze Consulting

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Scott Orn

Scott Orn, CFA

Jordan Smyth of Gleamin on building an all-natural beauty brand that empowers women across the globe

Posted on: 09/15/2020

Jordan Smyth

Jordan Smyth

Founder and CEO - Gleamin

Jordan Smyth of Gleamin - Podcast Summary

Jordan Smyth stops by to discuss Gleamin, a beauty company that helps women look their best while empowering them. Jordan is a serial entrepreneur despite his relatively young age. He shares his path, the challenges, and how those past experiences have made Gleamin even stronger.

Jordan Smyth of Gleamin - Podcast Transcript

Scott: Hey, it’s Scott Orn of Kruze Consulting, and welcome to another episode of Founders and Friends. And before we start the podcast, let’s give a quick shout-out to Rippling. Rippling is the new cool payroll tool that we see a lot of startups using. Rippling is great for your traditional HR and payroll. They integrate very nicely, but guess what? They did another thing. They integrate into your IT infrastructure. They make it really easy for when you hire someone to spin up all the web services and their computer, which sounds kind of like not a huge deal, but actually we did the study at Kruze. We spent $420 on average just getting a new employee’s computer up and running and their web servers up and running. It’s actually a really big deal. It saves a lot of money. And the dogs are in the Dogwood. We see a lot of startups coming into Kruze now using Rippling. So please check out Rippling, great service. We love it. I think we have a podcast with Parker Conrad. You can hear it from his own words, but we’re seeing them take market share. So, shout out to Rippling. And now to another awesome podcast at Kruze Consulting’s Founders and Friends. Thanks.
Singer: (Singing) It’s Kruze Consulting’s Founders and Friends, with your host Scotty Orn.
Scott: Welcome to Founders and Friends podcast with Scott Orn at Kruze Consulting. And today my very special guest is Jordan Smyth of Gleamin. Welcome Jordan.
Jordan: Thank you, thank you for I guess having me on. It’s my first podcast. It’s my first podcast I’ve ever done, yeah.
Scott: Maybe just retrace your career and how you had the idea to start Gleamin.
Jordan: Sure, I think regarding a career, I can’t really say I’ve had much of a career to be honest. I’m 21 years old. So, I can’t say like a career. But I have been doing my own thing for five to six years. So, starting around 15, 16 years old, everything that I’ve done probably has to go back to when I was a lot younger and with my dad and whenever it was with my brother as well. So, whenever we wanted something, he would really make us work for it. So, like if, for example, we were obsessed with Lego, and we wanted that new set or that new thing that had been released, he would make us on Saturdays come out to work with him, sweep houses, pick up stones, weeds, the whole lot. We were like his little assistants I guess, for the Saturdays. And then we would go to Toy World and pick up the Lego set that we wanted. So, I think doing this here has built the mindset that’s been able to help with everything moving forward in life and business.
Scott: I love it. I love it. That’s how I was raised the same way. I don’t know if your parents were entrepreneurs, you obviously are. But my parents really instilled that in my brother and I. And it’s funny, I have a two-and-a-half-year-old daughter and I just yesterday, because she’s an only child, so we buy her shit all the time. And so just yesterday she was asking for something and I was like, “Do you want to help with the chores to make money?” She just conceptualizing money. But it’s like I want to do exactly what your parents did for you, which is start early.
Jordan: I think it’s the best. It’s the best way, because I don’t think I ever… Obviously at the time I was like, “Why do I have to do this? I just want to go. It’s wasting the day of my weekend and I’ve got to go to school on Monday.” But I think just looking back at it now and reflecting, that was definitely something that’s come up in my mind. Yeah, and about what’s helped everything. But to get into I guess a quick timeline of what I’ve done since then, because Gleamin is not five, six years old. Around 15 or 16 years old, I launched a t-shirt line called Ellen Passware, as everyone does as your first business. Everyone sees you on YouTube or I don’t know, I looked up to a few influencers at the time, they were releasing their t-shirt brands. And that was the thing I wanted to do. However, after taking the months and months it took to launch it, we had the products, that went live and everything. I quickly launched that didn’t know how to market them. I don’t know how to sell them, nothing like that. And that was probably the key reason that it failed. The first day we got sales, sales, sales, but it was your friends, it was your family, it was people you knew. And then that slows down, the people who… Your friends or family, that all slows down a lot. And then you have to try to sell to people who don’t know you. And that was when the tricky part began.
Scott: But that’s a good… First of all, at that age to get through the whole production process and actually have something is pretty amazing. And then that’s a good lesson. It’s not good enough just to have the best t-shirt or the best widget. You got to let people find you and build up a reputation that helps people find you.
Jordan: Exactly, all of these are learnings. Like the way you see it is it’s a failure, it’s a classic saying, but they are right. Even after doing this for four months and I think I sold two shirts to random people that I didn’t know. And I ordered a few, I ordered a few as well. And obviously then after then, what’s the next thing you just have to keep trying. So, after that, my brother and I, and I keep bringing up my brother because he’s always been doing… We’ve always been doing similar things with business and we’ve both got very similar mindsets in that. So, my brother and I found this new business model called Amazon FBA. FBA, Fulfillment by Amazon. So, you’ve seen the pallets of stock from China to the US and we were doing that. We did that for a few products, toy products, masks, outfits, capes and stuff, kids capes. Basically, the way you would find an Amazon product is looking for products that have good seller rankings, but not so many reviews. So, it’d be the product at amazon.com, send out 100 or 200 for review, build up your listing. People start to search that keyword, yours comes up first. Started to do that, that all got shut down. I didn’t even know what official company documents or anything were at that time. So, my store on Amazon got completely shut down so I couldn’t provide the information that was required after hitting a threshold of sales. And I wasn’t old enough to ridge my own company. It was all this big miss. I needed this information there I didn’t have. I had no clue what these-
Scott: You didn’t have the incorporation documents and that kind of stuff?
Jordan: Yeah, yeah. I think I had to be incorporated in the US maybe, or I just… I’m not sure. I didn’t know what was going on. So, basically, that got shut down. Also riding off the back of Amazon as well. I did Amazon Kindle for a while. So, selling my mom’s books. So, my mom once to try to get published. She never actually was able to get published because she was just going through the classic route. So, what I decided to do is take her books, her children’s books that she wrote, put them on Kindle, and they actually started to sell. And we still receive checks to this day, four years later for these books that are sold on Kindle on Amazon. They’re not big, it’s like $40 every few months. And they’re not being cashed as well because they’re back in New Zealand and I’m here in Mexico. But yeah, it’s pretty cool. So, did that for a while.
Scott: Well good. It seems like you learned a couple really awesome lessons there that probably have informed the rest of your career. There’s something to be said for facing that problem and then just, even if it’s a $40 check every couple of months, you made something happen. Which I really respect.
Jordan: Yeah, I think it was the persistence was the biggest thing. Learning that and giving everything a shot and not really just accepting things with the way they are. I guess if you get shut down, like I literally got shut off Amazon, and I just had to find a way to get back on to sell these books. Same thing. Yeah, I don’t know. It was just, you definitely learn a lot. There’re all of these lessons which you probably can’t put down on a list as well, but they are lessons that you learn and that you use every single day when you’re making decisions for business later down the road subconsciously.
Scott: I always feel… This might just be me, but when I first joined Vanessa doing Kruze, my wife started Kruze Consulting, I don’t know if you know that.
Jordan: Yeah, yup. Awesome.
Scott: It was about the challenge, but also about survival. Just making enough money to survive and all that kind of stuff. And then at some point, it switched over once we knew we’d built something substantial to more a game of, “Hey, can we do this? Are we going to be able to grow with the company? Can we keep learning?” So, it’s that persistence you’re talking about. Like every day I wake up and I’m like, “I know there’s five or six things that I can do that are pretty high impact.” And I get a ton of fulfillment out of that. How you think about it, it’s one challenge after another, but it’s a fun challenge.
Jordan: Exactly, I got past that from that survival stage when I was able to quit my jobs that I had. I had two jobs working at a supplement brand and then also this food packing warehouse. When I was able to quit those and have enough money to just pay for the general things that I needed at that time, it did become a game. And I think with the businesses that I was in though with… Then I moved into drop shipping. The game was really daily revenue and finding winning products. Because that’s the aim of the game. You find winning products, advertise them, and it does become a game. And I think that that’s a good way to look at it I guess. If you want to really try to get the most enjoyment out of it.
Scott: Yeah, I’m not trivializing, it’s the enjoyment that you just said it. The enjoyment aspect of it and accomplishing or passing a level or something like that.
Jordan: Exactly, yeah. And drop shipping, it was daily revenue. It was the funniest thing because right now, it’s a mindset I’ve had to change as well.
Scott: You’ve definitely built something that really matters that people really love. So I’m sure it’s a little addictive like every day.
Jordan: It is, of course, it is. But the thing is, is I still have some of that bit of mindset in my head that I had from drop shipping, which I haven’t talked on yet. But that back then, I was always looking at daily revenue and looking at daily stats. And it’s an issue, I think actually right now, because you want to look at the longer-term picture. But back then, it was like the game of getting the highest daily revenue or finding that new winning product that you think in five days’ time, you can 10x your revenue and then sell for two weeks and then the product would die. And that’s the way it works. But yeah, talking about that, we did that. And that’s really… I think drop shipping was the place where I had the most lessons. Built up a really, really solid amount of capital, which has allowed me to grow Gleamin as well. I gained team building skills as well. I had a team of 17 people in the Philippines working full time on my drop shipping store.
Scott: When you say drop shipping, I know what that function is. It basically means for the audience’s benefit. You order something from a retailer and it’s shipped instead of going to a warehouse or physical retail, it’s just shipped to your house.
Jordan: Exactly, yeah. You don’t have stock.
Scott: [crosstalk] you were selling? Or what was the… Were you selling specific products in a drop shipped way or were you figuring out how to do drop ship as a service?
Jordan: So, no, we were selling products on our store. I was selling anything and everything. The criteria that I found with products was it’s something new and it has an innovative angle and it solves a problem. Because something I’ve been just solid at doing is building short form video ads that show the problem, bring in the solution, and a lot of that has helped Gleamin as well.
Scott: That’s smart. Super smart.
Jordan: So, we did that. I don’t know, I think we totaled it, we nearly had 230,000 orders in around 16 to 18 months with the drop shopping store. Sold hundreds and hundreds of different products all shipped from China from… By the end of it, I was just using one warehouse, this one contact in China. So, he was my man. And I’ll tell him a new product and he’d get it into the warehouse as soon as possible, within days. I wouldn’t have to pay for any stock, nothing. He would take the risk because we had business history. Did that, and then that idea has really been the big thing that’s allowed me to go on and do other things. So, open a gym in New Zealand and-
Scott: [crosstalk] too. The building up capital aspect of it is pretty important.
Jordan: Oh of course, yeah. That’s what it was.
Scott: You really got going, but you’ve been able probably to accelerate the growth faster. And maybe your previous businesses, because you had built up that nest egg, the capital that you could deploy here.
Jordan: Yeah, Gleamin wouldn’t be in the position that it’s in and I wouldn’t have been able to do the things and take the risks that I have with Gleamin without doing drop shipping. Because in the first year, we’ve taken a few I would say silly risks with capital. Dropped like 20K on this TV promotion with a large TV network in the USA and saw nothing from it. Not even a bunch of Instagram followers. Risks, stupid things like that.
Scott: Sometimes they work out though.
Jordan: Sometimes they work out, you do have to experiment. Yeah, you’re right. So, I’m very thankful for drop shipping and for discovery net and getting in at the time that I got in. It’s allowed me to do a lot of things like travel the way that I’ve traveled, set my life up in the way that I’ve set it up, build Gleamin. I’ve got another business in New Zealand as well, which is a gym, a kickboxing gym. So that’s in Auckland New Zealand, that’s called Nine Round [inaudible 00:00:13:36]. And being able to open that, yeah. And then also just start Gleamin. So, it’s been awesome. It’s been such a massive part of my life that it’s got the capital aspect, but then you have the huge learning side of it as well. And massive in the marketing. Like on drop shipping, you sell average products to people, not the greatest products, I’ll be honest, to people within the same day. They make the decision to buy within the same day. So, an impulse decision on our website that hosts hundreds of other products. [crosstalk] to do that. So, it was definitely beneficial.
Scott: That’s amazing. Well maybe you can tell our audience what Gleamin is all about and the core insights there.
Jordan: Sure, [inaudible] has always been a major thing in my life dating back to around eight years old. Actually, to be honest, I can’t remember the day that it started. I had rosacea with my nose and cheeks. And then whenever I would be in a hotter climate, change temperature, be in anxious environments as well, they would flush up. And I still get a bit of that to this day. And it would become very vivid red spots on my face, cheeks, nose, neck, all of that. So, rosacea was around my nose and cheeks, but then that created this redness issue that I had through those parts of my face. So then from there, skin care became a big part of my life because I was trying to find ingredients and things to soothe this down. Whenever it would flare up, what can I use to put on my face to soothe it the down? Something that has always helped is aloe vera. So, aloe vera, aloe vera gel has always been good for me in doing that. And that’s a bit about why we include that in the mask as well. But what that did is it allowed me to realize the power and actually the way you can use natural solutions to solve and help issues. Still to this day, I suffer with that problem and I get laser treatment around four to six months actually as well. So, laser is helping a lot with it as well. So, skincare has always been a thing. So, doing things for my skin has always been a thing in my life. So, I think that’s where I fell into building a skincare brand. I always wanted to transition from doing the last business structure and move into something and build something that I can be very proud of and build a team behind it and put my name behind it. And it made sense to do something along the lines of that, because I know that when you’ve got an issue with your skin, it really does affect your confidence no matter what it is. So, I wanted to do something that really helped people with that in the most natural solution natural way possible. And that’s where Gleamin began.
Scott: That’s amazing. So, from your own experiences, you were testing and trying different things. Maybe share that with the audience. So, it’s a face mask that helps with skin care?
Jordan: Anyone who is into marketing would probably say it’s stupid for me to say this, but I’m honest in saying the Gleamin face mask helps with a load of skin concerns. Dark spots, hyper pigmentation, those are two massive ones because of the turmeric, the aloe vera, and then also acne because of the vitamin C, we have three ingredients inside of it, which creates this thing we call it the Australian trio. And it’s Kakadu Plum, Desert Lime, and Finger Lime Caviar. Kakadu Plum is the richest known source of vitamin C in the world. Desert Lime and Finger Lime Caviar both have a lot of vitamin C and amazing, very powerful antioxidant ingredients. So those three combined there and with turmeric and with aloe vera putting those together and then attaching it to a clay mask, which clay in general brings out impurities from your skin really, and all of that. So, putting all of this together, creates something quite powerful.
Scott: That’s amazing. I love it.
Jordan: So, it’s pretty special. And to see some of the results that people are having, we haven’t really pushed the product and said that it’s for acne, because like I suggested, it does help a lot of things. However, with marketing, as you know, you can’t really sell someone something and say, “Oh, this is for everything you buy it.” You have to choose the angle and you have to decide which way to take it. And the decision around that was we were taking it to the USA. We tried to release it in Australia, didn’t go so well. The execution, I think just wasn’t done right. Took it to the USA, the skin concern that it did help with was evening skin tone, helping dark spots [crosstalk 00:18:13]. And I felt that that area there, there isn’t many natural solutions for their skin concern out there. And I think it doesn’t get enough eyeballs, that area of the market. I think people like women of color as well, black women as well. I feel like there’s not enough diversity in the industry. I feel like if I was to tell someone out there right on the street, side of the street, anyone, I would say, “Build your dream skincare product.” What does it help with? They’ll say acne. However, acne is one concern, but there’s so many others out there that people are struggling with that affects their confidence on a similar level and if not more. Because they can’t find something, there’s not a million products out there for this thing.
Scott: And did you put the formulation together? How did you know about these ingredients? How did you put this together?
Jordan: We worked with a natural skincare lab in Australia not too far from where I live. So, I live in Melbourne, he’s based in Newcastle. So, it was working with him, constructing this thing, going back and forth. It was conceptualized around the time that I moved to Melbourne, and that was around September, 2018. We released in March, 2019. So, five to six months, back and forth samples, just had to keep explaining the way that I wanted it, and then he would throw he’s addition in. He had some amazing suggestions, and he was amazing to work with in constructing the product. Really, really assisted a lot. So, I’m very thankful for that, but we kept going back and forth with the formula, talking about the experience of it because that was a huge thing as well. The experience side of skincare is massive. And if you want your product to be that trendy thing on social, when you want people to want to take a selfie with it and post it up on Instagram, or want to take a tutorial video with it, it has to have some sort of experience. So that’s why there was another reason why I chose the clay mask as well. It had a very attractive three, four step process, as well as having all of the benefits of the skin. It actually is really enjoyable to use, that was another reason there and yeah, so I worked with Jacob and constructed it in Australia.
Scott: The other thing I like about the company is I feel like Gleamin the name and just the way you message it on your website and it’s very upbeat. It’s a positive message instead of selling [inaudible] like some… And maybe, I don’t know how prevalent it is in the skincare brands, but sometimes people sell fear. You’re selling a positive outlook. The colors are really bright, like just the [inaudible 00:20:57]. And I feel like you’ve hit upon something that could be a really big brand. Like there could be other products with the Gleamin label, essentially.
Jordan: Yeah, and we’re working on those right now. They take a long time, I’ll be honest. When it’s like these other products as well, for some reason, I feel like the mask was constructed faster than these other products that we’re working on. Maybe because now we have a lot more… I guess we’re a lot more specific and we have a very clear idea about what we exactly want and we’re making sure we get that because I would rather wait two or three months to release something, make sure it’s right and done right and actually help someone with the skin concern that they’re dealing with rather than release something mediocre. So, we have a bunch of other formulas coming out, like six new products in the works right now. And one, it will be released within the first month or two months of 2021.
Scott: That’s fantastic. Well it sounds like you’re putting a pretty big emphasis on quality and now maybe at the time, you didn’t have this brand and company and employees and super excited customer putting it out there. But now it’s like… It’s almost like the rock band with the second album.
Jordan: Yeah, and the other thing is like, I don’t know… I’ll be honest, I don’t know everything about the industry and the regulations and all of these things we’ve had to now comply to, but building the team and having those people that have that experience now, I think that might also come into why things are taking a bit longer as well. Because we’re making sure that we tick all the boxes and every single way possible I think. Because before, it was like you’re saying it was almost just, “Let’s do a test,” I wanted to see like, “Will people love this product as much as I like… Will this gain traction in the market?” I know the product’s powerful, but will it gain traction in the market? Because you need to have great marketing to be able to sell any product. It doesn’t matter how good it is.
Scott: Yeah, and you guys are selling through Shopify, are there other eCommerce tools that are working really well for you or maybe marketing tools that other people can learn from?
Jordan: One thing I highly advise is utilizing Facebook Ad Library as much as possible. It gives you a really good grip around what other brands are advertising in terms of content, the angles, the way they are displaying their ads, Facebook Ad Library. It’s free. Just look it up on Google and you can type in a page. So, for example, type in Gleamin and you’ll see all of the ads that we’re running on Facebook and Instagram. And if use it right, it’s great insight. Because you can use that, look at other brands. If you looked at 50 brands, you spend time going through them, you could actually get an idea about what’s working in the market for skincare in regards to ads. Why do these ads work and why do these ads not? So that’s been a huge thing, but it’s been around for years anyway.
Scott: How are you fulfilling all the orders? Are using Amazon 3PO?
Jordan: No, we work with a 3PO in Idaho. Yeah, so not Amazon, working with them and we did have two warehouses, but we decided to cut it back to one because we had gone through some budget issues during COVID and we decided to make things simple. We just brought it back to one warehouse. Also, shipping rates are crazy right now. And we’re shipping all the stock from Australia to the USA and obviously that’s not too cheap. So, we decided to instead of sending to this other warehouse that we had, which was costing a little bit more, we just decided to do one.
Scott: Makes total sense. Well you built a heck of a business here. It’s really impressive. And like I said, I can see this going a long way. And you’re also just a young man. You’ve got a lot of time to build a gigantic company here.
Jordan: Yeah, people say that but I never like to think of time. Like I don’t want to say… I don’t like to think, “I’ve got a lot of time.”
Scott: Yeah, I think of it as back to the game mentality. And I still think of myself as fairly young, so I’ve had a lot of years to compound the growth and take what’s working and keep [crosstalk] that and then fix the things that don’t work. Like you talked about this a little bit, there’s things that don’t work in a startup or things you need to solve or issues you run into. Is there something for the other entrepreneurs out there who are just listening, do you look back and you’re like, “Oh man, if I just would have handled that differently and more proactively,” that you could have saved a little bit of time or some pain?
Jordan: Yeah, I think one thing would be, I forgot the saying, but it’s like chasing the golden nugget or something like that. And this is something that I know a lot of people that suffer from it right now. I used to suffer from it. And now I’m just focused on Gleamin. It’s trying to do too much at once. And just when you’re just being yourself. Just as a solo entrepreneur. I think right now, especially with the [inaudible] and the age of Instagram and your social life and the internet, people want to show what they’re working on, which is fair enough. I love that. And you should be showing what you’re working on if you’re proud of it. However, because of that, a lot of people are doing something and bringing onto me projects to show that they are working on so many things to increase the way that they are perceived online. However, after doing things for a while, like years, five years, six years and going through this experience, once I had something like five or six projects slash businesses in the works at one time. We only talked about three, but these are like other little projects and things. You just get so overwhelmed and for something to become so successful, I think there’s a massive benefit and there’s huge value in just focusing on that one thing and learning where to say no, it’s the same that you see floating around somewhere. I see a bunch of posts on LinkedIn about it as learning to say no.
Scott: I couldn’t agree more. And I know sometimes it’s related to your personality type and I am a person who likes to do a lot of different things, so I’m… Vanessa helps coach me on this, to slow down a little bit and focus on one or two things and you can get them done and get them done well. So not only for people out there, but I’m going to take your advice because I need to… And I read the book The One Thing last year and my coaches actually gave it to me and it really helped me. So yeah, I agree, man. That’s some good advice there.
Jordan: [inaudible]
Scott: That’s how we got connected. I know Kate.
Jordan: Kate’s been the biggest, such a massive help with me and a lot on Gleamin’s side, but a huge part on being that founder, CEO, progressing in that type of field and the way to approach things and something she was telling me is to slow down. And that’s something I’ve really been working on, I think in the last month, two months. And it’s not like slowing down in a sense of slowing down your business, but I think it’s slowing down and making decisions. Because there was a lot of times where I was making a decision and trying to move so fast. So that’s probably a massive learning as well was make your decisions a bit slower. And even when you’re trying to 10x your revenue in a year, you can still take an extra day and map out the benefits or the side effects of making a decision, an important business decision, which is something I should have done in a lot of cases because we’ve had issues come up in Gleamin and they have been just from moving too fast and just saying yes, and it could have had a different outcome if I think I just thought about things a little bit more. Sat down and wrote everything down on a piece of paper and just sat with my thoughts a little bit, rather than just thinking like, Yes, growth, let’s see what happens,” kind of thing. Because that would be my mindset as well. It’s just like, “Go, go, go.”
Scott: That’s really, really good advice. Well, we should get you out of here, but before you leave, can you tell everyone how to reach Gleamin, how to buy from you if they’re interested in reaching out to you maybe on LinkedIn or something like that, but maybe how they can [crosstalk] the brand.
Jordan: I guess LinkedIn is just Jordan Smyth. And they should be able to see my name and same on Instagram as well. And about Gleamin, gleamin.com as well. Hopefully it’s mentioned in the description here and if you want to take 10% off your order, we’ve made a discount code for Scott, and it’s Scott at checkout for 10% off, I thought I’d throw that one in there as well.
Scott: I didn’t know that was coming. That’s a nice perk for the Founders and Friends audience.
Jordan: Yeah, and just let people know, we’re hiring as well. So, we’re hiring right now. We’re actually going to be looking for someone in digital marketing field soon who is an expert in the email and this mess. So, I’m not sure when this is getting pushed, but if you’re interested and whoever’s listening to this, there might be a position available. So, we’re always trying to grow and see if there’s any addition to the team that we can bring on.
Scott: Fantastic, well congrats on your success. You’re doing it the right way. The brand is really cool and I’m excited to see where you take it.
Jordan: Perfect, I appreciate it, man. Thank you so much.
Scott: All right, Jordan. Thanks man.
Jordan: Appreciate it.
Singer: (Singing) It’s Kruze Consulting’s Founders and Friends, with your host Scotty Orn.

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